Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Bryant (Actor)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. At the most one of the "keeps" comes from an account which has not been conclusively shown to be a sockpuppet, most of which appear to have been created specifically to try to rig this discussion, and even that one has to be suspect. However, even if we ignore that, and don't discount the sockpuppet "keeps", the result is still "delete", because none of the "keep" arguments stands up to analysis. A source, even if reliable, is not evidence of notability of an actor because it covers a film he was in, and briefly mentions his name in a credit. The "delete" comments, on the other hand, do contain clear arguments that the subject is not shown to meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines. JamesBWatson (talk) 16:22, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

John Bryant (Actor)[edit]

John Bryant (Actor) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Fails WP:PEOPLE. No reliable references, IMDb can not be treated as a reference. Mr RD 18:41, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - A notable actor with reliable credits third party refs have been furnished. Some commercial success, and community involvement with the Los Angeles Gay & Lesbian Center and the city of West Hollywood. These make referencing and retention possible. MarkDavidson222 (talk) 02:24, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed sockpuppet of Evilkingzarkon (talk · contribs) Michaelzeng7 (talk) 20:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep References have been corrected. CMGLA (talk) 09:06, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed sockpuppet of Evilkingzarkon (talk · contribs) Michaelzeng7 (talk) 20:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:35, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:35, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:35, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is sad. A promising sample: "He began writing and performing original theater pieces and this led to being cast in his first lead role for director Ela Troyano as "Angel" in the critically acclaimed[1] film Latin Boys Go To Hell[2][3][4]." It's critically acclaimed? If link 1 isn't Rotten Tomatos-style metacriticism, this is odd: providing just one source suggests that it's instead a matter of a film critically acclaimed by this or that one writer. The link is to the LA Times; I took a look. No, this article doesn't acclaim the movie so much as trash it. This of course doesn't matter in itself: you can notably appear in a terrible movie and get through it with honor intact. But somehow the transparently fictional acclaim for the movie puts the entire Wikipedia bio in doubt. (Incidentally, "critically acclaimed" dates back to the very first version of this article, which has had a convoluted history that I can't claim to fully understand.) There's much else in the biography that is simply unsourced, or sourced to a website that can be freely edited. And above, MarkDavidson222 and CMGLA add more unsourced claims -- that he "Has large fan based "cult" following among the gay and lesbian community," etc. (When I can make sense of the claims, that is. What are "Reliable community works"? What "Stand[s] alone"? In "Strong Credits End", is "credits" a noun or a verb, and either way what does this sentence mean?) Morenoodles (talk) 08:34, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - The article has been corrected and sources of notability have been furnished. CMGLA (talk) 00:24, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Only make a bolded "keep" !vote once in an AfD. If you do it multiple times it may distort the actual consensus. Thanks. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 21:34, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Only make a bolded "keep" !vote once in an AfD. If you do it multiple times it may distort the actual consensus. Thanks. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 21:34, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think you're supposed to vote twice. The article has improved, a bit. It has some biographical info (postal workers, Brooklyn, etc). Where does this come from? There's a link to a website in the infobox at the top right; I click it but I don't see Bryant. What's the point of the link? Morenoodles (talk) 07:00, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Michaelzeng7 (talk) 21:38, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Rotten Tomatoes[1] lists numerous reviews many from well-known sources[2][3][4] for Latin Boys Go To Hell, suggesting it's notable even if it doesn't have an article. This article needs revision to remove promotional tone, as well as copy editing, but Bryant meets WP:NACTOR #1. -- Artofintelligence (talk) 05:17, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed sockpuppet of Evilkingzarkon (talk · contribs) Michaelzeng7 (talk) 20:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Per Artofintelligence. Many reviews of Latin Boys Go To Hell, here's one for his new film Dark Crossing [5], and here's a music video by award winning grammy musician Kirk Franklin, in it he stars as the veteran soldier returning home from Iraq in a wheelchair. [6][7] -- JJRedfieldtalkLA (talk) 05:22, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What's your definition of "review", RedfieldtalkLA? I looked at just one of your links, that for Dark Crossing. You call that a "review"? Morenoodles (talk) 07:35, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed sockpuppet of Evilkingzarkon (talk · contribs) Michaelzeng7 (talk) 20:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Notable actor. He and his work have been covered substantially in reliable independent sources. AmandaAmann (talk) 05:24, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed sockpuppet of Evilkingzarkon (talk · contribs) Michaelzeng7 (talk) 20:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep = plenty of sources are available to prove he passes WP:NACTOR. Many (but not most) actors of films are notable, while actors of online soap series are usually not, even if they are involved in an innovative web series developed in partnership with the LA Gay & Lesbian Center and the City of West Hollywood. Pdvarialslagunatalk (talk) 05:27, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed sockpuppet of Evilkingzarkon (talk · contribs) Michaelzeng7 (talk) 20:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lots of SPA work above! The article says "He co-stars opposite Damian Chapa as "Victor Garcia" in the film Dark Crossing,[3] a movie about one man's perilous journey in surviving the dangerous world of Mexico's drug trafficking to rescue his sister who had been illegally kidnapped." It's hard to find anything about this movie, but a slightly larger graphic for it is visible on this page. The design of the graphic suggests that the two costars are Bardo and Osuna; that Bryant Davila appears in it but doesn't costar. Morenoodles (talk) 07:35, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep the independent sources clearly indicate the article subject is notable worthy of wiki standards. Articles like this will improve over time after inclusion DIZwikwiki (talk) 19:26, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Your argument would be more convincing, DIZwikwiki, if you did some work towards its improvement. After all, it's not going to improve itself. Or at least you could say which of the independent sources contains material that may be used by others to improve the article. Morenoodles (talk) 00:14, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: DIZwikwiki (talk · contribs) is a confirmed sockpuppet of Hhighimpact059 (talk · contribs) and has been indefinitely blocked. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 20:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the sources, such as the LA Times, NY Times, and Variety articles, in the article talk only about the movie Latin Boys Go To Hell, and only passively mention Bryant. IMDb is not a reliable source for biographical information, and neither are YouTube and Blogger. The rest of the sources only passively mention Bryant, or don't mention him at all. The sources do not indicate that this person meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines. Specifically, the guideline on actors. Bryant has only made a significant appearance in one possibly notable film, not enough to satisfy the criteria. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 03:30, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Fails WP:NACTOR. It looks like the only significant role he played was in the film Latin Boys Go To Hell. The film may have a claim to notability, but John Bryant doesn't have the significant roles in multiple films required for notability. Perhaps WP:TOOSOON. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 21:10, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - It seems that the first discussion was nearly three years ago. Articles like this will improve over time after inclusion. He and his work have been covered substantially in reliable independent sources such as Rotten Tomatoes, Variety, NY Times, Timeout, LA Times. For Bryant to meet WP:NACTOR #1 States= Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions. He meets this criteria. For example, he starred as "Angel" in Latin Boys Go To Hell[8], starred in two Damian Chapa films, as "Hector" in Chicano Blood [9][10][11]and as "Victor Garcia" in the upcoming film Dark Crossing. [12][13] [14] This is in addition to minor roles in many other films. "Other productions" can be understood to mean music videos, commercials, and digital media. Here too he meets the criteria. After digging around here is what I found: an innovative and award-winning HIV prevention transmedia campaign “In the Moment” developed in partnership with LA Gay & Lesbian Center and the City of West Hollywood. In it he stars as "Carlos" for 27 episodes and there is even an episode in which he enters a same-sex marriage [15][16][17] He is in yet another online web series called "Sk8 Or Die" which is a zombie/skater "Choose your own Adventure" story by Sunny Boy Entertainment. Here he played the lead role "Forest" in all six episodes [18] I found that he stars in a few music videos, such as a music video by award winning Grammy musician Kirk Franklin, as the veteran soldier returning home in a wheelchair. [19][20] and another video alongside British singer Leona Lewis as the love interest in "I Got You" [21] Finally his work includes over a dozen commercials for well known brands such as Wendy's, Freeway Insurance, T-Mobile, Wrigley's, Samsung among others. [22][23] [24] [25] [26] [27] It also includes advertisements in magazines, and found at subway and bus stations in Los Angeles and New York. In conclusion I think he's cute, and he is a good actor. I have seen Latin Boys Go To Hell and am an avid watcher of the online soap series In The Moment TV. I feel he meets the criteria as a notable actor with reliable credits. MarcusMarshallTalk (talk) 04:14, 28 January 2014 (UTC) — MarcusMarshallTalk (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Hello brand new editor! You say "He and his work have been covered substantially in reliable independent sources such as Rotten Tomatoes, Variety, NY Times, Timeout, LA Times." Choose any two. Provide links to pages there that provide substantial coverage of him or his work in films or commercials. (Skip coverage of those films or commercials; instead, his work in them. And skip the links to Youtube, blogs, etc.) Do that, and I'll reconsider my decision (a short way below). Morenoodles (talk) 07:45, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and salt considering the fact that this has gone through an AfD before, was recreated (albeit probably with more fluff), and the flood of SPAs who feel passionately about this. The sources range from truly reliable sources which make passing mentions of the subject to totally unreliable sources dedicated to the subject.LM2000 (talk) 04:25, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per LM2000, because the puppet play above has brought nothing new to the table. Morenoodles (talk) 07:45, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. References are either IMDb, which is freely editable, YouTube, which is a depository for self-published content, blogs, which are also self-published or newspapers, which fail the higher requirements of WP:BLPSOURCES.--Launchballer 08:33, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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