Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jim May (chemical engineer)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Withdrawn by Nominator‎. Finally the creating editor has acknowledged their COI at WP:COIN and interested editors may now work unhindered to retrieve a useful article from the strange state it is in today. There is no purpose in prolonging this discussion.There are no other editors expressing the need to delete, and the keeps are conclusive in any case (non-admin closure) 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 09:00, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Jim May (chemical engineer)[edit]

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/James Richard May

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This article is filled with references of no consequence, WP:BOMBARD, and fails to demonstrate that the subject passes WP:BIO. He is assuredly WP:BLP1E for his centenrary medal, assuming them to be a scarce award, but the rest is fluff, flummery and a vanity piece. WP:NOTMEMORIAL applies.

To assist editors with this nomination I have prepared a source analysis table on this permalink to the best of my ability:

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Timtrent
Pearce, Suzannah (2005). Who's Who in Australia, 1906-2006, XLII Edition. Crown Content Pty Ltd. p. 1350. ISBN 1740950232.	~ There is significant doubt about the independence of any edition of Who's Who	~ There is significant doubt about the reliability of any edition of Who's Who	? No copy was available to assess	? Unknown
James May". Alumni and Community. The University of Queensland. 8 January 2016.	~ This is a university giving an award to one of their own alumni. It is a useful marketing vehicle for the university	There is much marketing and PR self interest when making some form of an award to an alumnus. While the University itself may be considered reliable, the Alumni element of it is by no means likely to be in this context	Several paragraphs.	✘ No
Field, Graham J. (1988). The Fields of Endeavour, Builders, Butchers and Publicans. G. Field. p. 115. ISBN 978-0-7316-4614-2.	? No copy was available to assess	? No copy was available to assess	? No copy was available to assess	? Unknown
Evans, Mervyn Wyke (1981). The Days of May. Rigby. pp. 302, 303. ISBN 978-0-7270-1548-8.	? No copy was available to assess	? No copy was available to assess	? No copy was available to assess	? Unknown
May, Richard. “Outstanding Contribution Advanced Mineral Research and Technology.” The Age. The Age, August 26, 2023. https://www.theage.com.au/national/outstanding-contribution-advanced-mineral-research-and-technology-20230826-p5dzn2.html.	While The Age is independent and RS, the Obits segment is user generated submissions. This is authored by May's son.	While The Age is independent and RS, the Obits segment is user generated submissions. This is authored by May's son.	Decent article	✘ No
“A Service of Thanksgiving and Celebration for the Life Of.” Accessed June 15, 2023. https://irp.cdn-website.com/6d856cf0/files/uploaded/James%20May%20OOS.pdf	The is an order of service for a funeral/thanksgiving service	The is an order of service for a funeral/thanksgiving service	Well fleshed out order of service	✘ No
Sense, Design. “Australian Prospectors & Miners Hall of Fame	This states it uses "AMIRA International Archives" and AMIRA is where May was CEO for many years	This states it uses "AMIRA International Archives" and AMIRA is where May was CEO for many years	Well rounded piece	✘ No
AusIMM Award recipients 2021". AusIMM.	Profile piece of May among other members of this institute	Profile piece of May among other members of this institute	Well rounded piece<	✘ No
issuu. "AMIRA Sharing the Benefits Newsletter – Issue 38 November 2014," 2014. p. 13. https://issuu.com/imranhussain94/docs/amira_-_sharing_the_benefits_-_issu/1?ff	AMIRA newsletter! May was CEO	AMIRA newsletter! May was CEO	Passing mention in the caption to a photograph om p18	✘ No
"Centenary Medal entry for Mr James Richard MAY". It's an Honour, Australian Honours Database. Canberra, Australia: Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet. 1 January 2001. Retrieved 2 January 2023. For service to Australian society in mineral science and engineering	Australian government document	Australian government document, but see the comment by Melcous below which sggests that it simply shows longevity for many recipients	Sufficient to cite the award satisfactorily	✘ No
The AusIMM Awards Recipients" (PDF). Australasian Institute of Mining and Metallurgy. p. 6. Retrieved 2 January 2023. in recognition of his outstanding contribution to the initiation and management of mineral research and technology through his role as Chief Executive Officer of the Australian Mineral Industries Research Association (AMIRA) and involvement with research organisations throughout Australia.	Awards given by this institute	Awards given by this institute	One paragraph, top of page 6	✘ No
ATSE. “All Fellows	Part of list of all fellows of this organisation	Part of list of all fellows of this organisation	Verifies membership and death date in almost no words	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:08, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Australia. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:08, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment the Centenary Medal was given to 15,841 people (plus every centenarian alive in the country at the time) so I don't think it would qualify as "scarce" or automatically confer notability. Melcous (talk) 13:54, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have modified the table based upon your comment. I do not necessarily see the need to modify the wording of the nomination. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 15:10, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Engineering-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 16:34, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. He meets criteria #3 of WP:NPROF, which also covers non-academic researchers. He was an Honorary Fellow of the Australasian Institute of Mining and Metallurgy as described here ans well as a Fellow of the Australian Academy of Technology and Engineering, whose election criteria are described here. See List of fellows of the Australian Academy of Technological Sciences and Engineering. Timtrent, if you believe that the references that support these are of "no consequence", you should not be evaluating articles in this area. Your evaluation of the sources in the table is not correct for these types of awards. Think election to the US National Academy of Sciences, which is an independent evaluation of a person's contirbutions and whose announcement is the appropriate source. StarryGrandma (talk) 17:15, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We differ. That is why we are having a discussion. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:21, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://cheme.stanford.edu/academics-admissions/financial-aid/phd-financial-aid-overview/nationally-competitive-fellowships but these mostly concerns the US. I am not sure what the fellowships you mentioned mean in Australia, although if these fellowships mean something comparable to the list I linked above, I would say #3 is a reasonable argument in favor of keeping. I'm not putting in input either way and I'm going to defer it to someone more familiar with these fellowships. Graywalls (talk) 00:29, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. StarryGrandma (talk) 17:15, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As this discussion was had in January, where the outcome was keep. Since then, more references, though debated, have been included. Carey3146 (talk) 20:01, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep by arguments of Starry. Xxanthippe (talk) 22:00, 1 October 2023 (UTC).[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Science and Engineering. Graywalls (talk) 00:30, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. An entry in Who's Who in Australia is not insignificant, and StarryGrandma makes a compelling point that NRPOF#3 is met. --Mvqr (talk) 10:12, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Per argument by StarryGrandma. Shoerack (talk) 18:11, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The FTSE is a learned society and to be a member means being elected into the fellowship. That alone would like be enough for notability. Being president of the industries associations is more than than enough when combined with the fellowship. He is a senior figure in that industry. scope_creep^Talk 08:05, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Based on my current understanding of the fellowship. However, the article does need a lot of trimming and neutralization. Graywalls (talk) 12:29, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep based on substantial content from different web sites, particularly those that talk about awards. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 06:15, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: notability appears to be met. The creator and major editor of the article has finally disclosed that they do have a WP:COI, so the focus should now be on rewriting the article to meet WP:NPOV and WP:RS. Melcous (talk) 06:18, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WITHDRAW NOMINATION: Finally the creating editor has acknowledged their COI at WP:COIN and interested editors may now work unhindered to retrieve a useful article from the strange state it is in today. There is no purpose in prolonging this discussion. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:56, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.