Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jewish Americans in Jazz

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Vanamonde (Talk) 01:17, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish Americans in Jazz[edit]

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Reads like an creative essay or homework assignment for a history of jazz class. KidAd • SPEAK 07:19, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. AllyD (talk) 08:09, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I agree with the nominator; this looks like a school paper that only compares content found in a few journal articles, and it only scratches the surface of what could be a extensive history when tackled by experts. For anyone interested in the general topic, I suggest expanding the "Jazz and race" section (currently section 2.3) at the main Jazz article, which may benefit from more material on the contributions of Jewish musicians. A robust "List of Jewish jazz musicians" article might be useful too. But for this article we're discussing now, delete per the essay and original research guidelines. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:40, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: While initially inclined to WP:AFDNOTCLEANUP, I have to agree with the above, that the present article is too partial to serve as the basis for a stronger article on the topic of Jewish musicians (and promoters) in the history of Jazz in the USA. Articles such as Grove's "Jewish music in the United States" mention "harangues about “Jewish jazz” in media outlets (which) propagated stereotypes about the Jewish influence in popular culture" in the 1920s; along with the Bornstein and Davis texts referenced in the article, that could indicate a feasible topic, but it would have to go beyond an amalgam of brief biographies of several individuals. AllyD (talk) 11:14, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Update, I rewrote the article and Inf-in MD made additional improvements, so the original complaint is no longer relevant. I agree the article has significant problems. But I think just wiping away all of the work is too drastic of an approach. As Jews are a race and/or religion depending on the context or who you ask, I'd suggest cutting down and rewriting the content on this page, and moving it in a new "Jews in Jazz" sub-section on the main Jazz article alongside Women and Race. I'd even be willing to do that editing. -- Bob drobbs (talk) 21:10, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment @KidAd: FYI, you're absolutely right in your initial assessment. This page was written as part of a UCSD course.[1]. -- Bob drobbs (talk) 22:37, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Draft as a replacement? I created a draft Draft:Jews_in_Jazz as a possible new section in the main Jazz page. It's based on the content in this page, but cut down for length and rewritten in a more encyclopedic tone. Thoughts? -- Bob drobbs (talk) 20:12, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I'm sorry, but what exactly is the rationale for deletion? That it was created as a college course assignment? How is that better or worse than an article created because "I am interested in subject X so I wrote about it"? The only relevant questions are if it is notable and properly sourced to reliable sources who cover it - and it does. Inf-in MD (talk) 01:08, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Inf-in MD: Any thoughts on my draft? It is a cleaned up and shortened version of this page. Any thoughts on merging that into the main Jazz page? To me, that seems like an overall improvement. -- Bob drobbs (talk) 01:19, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think your draft is an improvement (and feel free to simply replace the current article with your version). But ultimately, it doesn't matter if your draft is better, or if someone else could improve on either the current version or yours. If the subject is notable (and it is), and can be sourced to reliable sources (and it can - see for example https://www.amazon.com/Jews-Jazz-Transnational-Studies/dp/1138195790 or https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/howard-reich/ct-ent-jazz-body-soul-0207-story.html) then the article should be kept (and improved). I haven't seen an actual argument for its deletion yet, and if the article can be fixed through normal editing, then it is not a candidate for AfD. Inf-in MD (talk)

Okay. I edited the text in the article so the original complaint now seems null-and-void. I also edited my vote to keep or merge. -- Bob drobbs (talk) 02:16, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - While I might've been partial about deleting for the sole purpose of allowing a clean remake of a clearly notable topic (there's a page around here talking about that which I cannot recall the name of), the overhaul discussed directly above built a decent foundation. ~Cheers, Ten Ton Parasol 16:29, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - the argument by Inf-in MD is convincing. The provided reason for deletion is invalid, and the topic seems notable. Caleb Stanford (talk) 00:47, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.