Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jennifer Jajeh

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. signed, Rosguill talk 01:16, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Jennifer Jajeh[edit]

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Jennifer Jajeh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Doesn't pass GNG. There's this article [1] and an interview (which doesn't count towards notability) [2] but not much else. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 18:05, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep: She may be notable. I agreed with Pburka. CastJared (talk) 19:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
CastJared, just clarifying that you agree that this could be a redirect? HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 19:29, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. CastJared (talk) 00:29, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. There are plenty of sources both cited in the article and found by clicking on "books" in the nomination statement. Whether we should have an article on the writer, the show or both is an editing, not a deletion, decision, but, as the late lamented User:DGG once put it (I paraphrase), a living writer can write something more, but a written work can't acquire more writers. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:19, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: A redirect has been mentioned but not what article target it should be.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:36, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. I strongly agree with the DGG quote above. As noted, I wouldn't object to a redirect to her notable play, if and when someone writes that page. Until then, keep the bio. pburka (talk) 23:56, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. She may be notable. The article needs more attention and has to establish the notability.Kinkordada (talk) 06:12, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: "She may be notable" is not a strong argument to Keep an article and no redirect target has been offered on that front so I'm relisting this for another week.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:28, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong Delete. I saw the WP:CITEKILL added since the article was nominated for deletion [3] and looked into them. [Citation 3] is the subject's appearance on a podcast. Non-RS, primary source, not independent of the subject. [Citation 4] and [Citation 5] are 2 short interviews made on the same day with her alma mater's school newspaper. Not exactly RS, primary source, not independent of the subject. [Citation 6] is another interview. [Citation 7] is another interview and non-RS. [Citation 8] is a short interview. [Citation 9] has 3 sentences about her and non-RS. All of these added sources are a combination of interviews, trivial mentions, low depth, or non-RS. The edit[4] is evidence, if anything, in favor of deletion. I did more research. Across sourcing I could find, I see a lot of trivial mentions and namedrops like when clicking on the "Books" and "News" links in the nom, low depth sourcing (non-SIGCOV), non-RS, webpages insulting the subject, interviews and other primary or non-independent sourcing. Aside: I can't help but notice this AfD is getting canvassed. Saucysalsa30 (talk) 10:05, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you followed the "books" link then you must have seen this and this. Which do you class them as, trivial mentions or namedrops? Phil Bridger (talk) 10:46, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I did see them. Thank you for your question. Both, regardless of reliability, give a short summary without much depth of the article subject's solo performance monologue "I Heart Hamas". About the subject it only mentions she wrote this monologue, is a writer, producer, comic, playwright and that her family is from Ramallah, which is trivial. They may be mediocre sources for "I Heart Hamas", but are trivial for the subject. If grasping at anything available, like I addressed in my vote, and sarcasm are the best case for keeping, then in my view, it is more evidence for deletion. Saucysalsa30 (talk) 19:59, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would invite anyone reading this discussion to look at those sources to see whether what Saucysalsa30 says is true. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:07, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, I kindly ask you to not cast aspersions. Sarcastic responses[5], implications of lying [6], and false accusations[7] do not belong in any discussion. You are getting into the territory of bludgeoning this AfD (I already count 5 comments). Pinging me 18 hours after your last comment, which no one responded to, to get a response is part of it. I recommend WP:FOC.
The ping was off-topic but I'll address it because threats are being made[8]. Three of the comments are, verbatim, "She may be notable". The relister recognized this too[9]. I've seen dozens of reasonably trafficked AfDs with verbatim repeated responses like this so I got curious and went to Wikipedia IRCs to ask about it. An admin said yes but those votes don't count for anything. Nothing special. Then I made my comment, which included the short aside. No one said you have been canvassed. I respect that you at least tried to make some form of argument, although much of it is WP:ATA#CRYSTAL. My condolences to DGG but the quote lacks relevance here and we can't know that the subject will be notable. Saucysalsa30 (talk) 21:59, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Saucysalsa30, you say you "can't help but notice this AfD is getting canvassed". I haven't been able to find any evidence of this, so could you please provide it so that the canvassing can be taken into account in the close of this discussion. I, for one, have not been canvassed. Phil Bridger (talk) 14:11, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Saucysalsa30:. I see that you edited this discussion to remove both my comments and Phil Bridger's comments. You said above that there is canvassing related to this AfD. This is a serious accusation. Please clarify who is canvassing and where the canvassing is occurring. pburka (talk) 23:11, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Saucysalsa is currently blocked and is the subject of an ANI for similar unfounded claims in other discussions. pburka (talk) 15:33, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
At the moment the block is only for 31 hours, so may be lifted before this discussion closes. Saucysalsa30, I will not accuse you of bludgeoning this discussion if you make a reasonably concise reply, but will not hold back from saying that you are lying if that turns out to be the case. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:37, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per above. The person who loves reading (talk) 01:42, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I've been notified by Phil Bridger to comment on this AfD again. It was implied that I was I'm dishonest, a serious charge, about two sources[10]. This is what the sources say about the subject biographically in full.
  • Contemporary Women Playwrights: "Jennifer Jajeh, an American actor, writer, and producer whose parents are from Ramallah in the West Bank, wrote and performs the monologue."
  • Middle Eastern American Theatre: "Palestinian American solo performer, playwright, and comic Jennifer Jajeh’s I Heart Hamas: And Other Things I’m Afraid to Tell You is another personal journey of a Christian/Catholic Arab American woman who journeys back to her ancestral homeland of Palestine. Jajeh, whose family has lived in the West Bank town of Ramallah for the past 450 years, decided to create the play because she was tired of explaining herself and her beliefs about the conflict."
In both, the following few paragraphs shift to focus on summarizing her "I Heart Hamas" solo performance, which is a monologue in which the subject describes a few humorized, dramatized events from her own life. I hope that clears it up. Saucysalsa30 (talk) 22:53, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • You say that the following few paragraphs focus on her work. Just as sources for politicians and sportspeople are usually about politics and sport sources for creative professionals are about their work. Why do people treat this topic area differently and expect sources to be about their pet's name or their favourite colour rather than about what makes them notable? Phil Bridger (talk) 06:19, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see that Saucysalsa30 has now been indefinitely blocked. At least I tried to hold a civil conversation, but it seems that that was in vain. I suppose I will have to leave my last question as a rhetorical one, unless someone else would care to answer it. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:55, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Just about scrapes it (sympathy to the nom), but I think her play is notable, and per Phil Bridger (quoting DGG) above, I have no problem with this being the main WP article for that. I added another ref for good measure “I Heart Hamas” explores identity. We can always revisit it again. Aszx5000 (talk) 15:25, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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