Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jason Kessler

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Not a single delete !vote besides the nominator who did not even argue for deletion. Consensus is slightly in favor of WP:BLP1E and WP:BIO1E not applying in this case and thus keeping it as a stand-alone article. This might change but then a merger can always be discussed at the talk page. SoWhy 07:26, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Jason Kessler

Jason Kessler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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The subject of this article is clearly not notable per WP:GNG and WP:BLP1E. When a "Background" section starts with "Prior to 2016 Kessler was virtually unknown" and provides no information to suggest he has become less unknown, that's a good sign it shouldn't be an article. The article contains three sources, one an "extremist file" by the Southern Poverty Law Center, not a news report. All coverage is in the context of Unite the Right rally, and this page should be a redirect to that location, where all of the relevant information already is. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:27, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

• Keep- The media has been talking about the Unite the Right rally non-stop for the past week. Kessler is the main organizer of the event. All the information about his background does not appear in the Unite the right article and adding it would lengthen an already really long article. As for the southern poverty law center source, it is the most comprehensive summary of his background I could find and shouldn't be a problem given the southern poverty law center has been used as a source multiple times in the Unite the Right page.--Rusf10 (talk) 15:39, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
  • You made my point for me. The media has been talking about the rally. The rally organizer isn't therefore notable. He's notable if there's sufficient coverage of him, and there isn't. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:48, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
    • If you ask the simple question, why did the rally occur? The answer is Jason Kessler, who whatever reason has been focused on protesting the removal of the Robert E Lee statue for over a year. A rally of this magnitude would not have occurred, if he did not organize it. It was not the KKK or neo-nazi groups that were mainly responsible for the rally as the media wants you to believe (although these hate groups were certainly part of it).--Rusf10 (talk) 15:57, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
      • His organizing the rally falls under WP:BLP1E. And "as the media wants you to believe"? He's part of those groups. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:25, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:28, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:28, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

• Merge - merge the page into the page on the rally itself unless he is notable in some other way as well. Ross-c (talk) 16:04, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
• Merge per Ross-c. Booyahhayoob (talk) 21:49, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
• Keep the Unite the Right rally is about a RALLY, not an organizer. I agree with @Rusf10: about the length of the Unite the Right rally article. Since the event is so important, the organizer's motivations need to be examined in depth. The right place to do that is on a dedicated page. Spem Reduxit (talk) 00:15, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
  • "Examnining the organizer's motivations" goes against the purpose of Wikipedia. We are not a newspaper and we don't do original research. News organizations aren't covering him, so we don't either. Not on his own page. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:36, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
    • What is "original research" in this article? everything is cited. And the motivations for the rally are important, the media doesn't want to discuss that because it doesn't fit their narrative that the reason for the rally was anything but pure racism. However, the events leading up to this rally go back over a year. However, despite being part of the "mainstream media", the CBS affiliate and the local newspaper there in Charlottesville did do some reports on this guy and that's what I got information from.--Rusf10 (talk) 01:34, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
• Merge into Unite the Right rally. Kessler is known solely for his role in that rally, his contribution can be handled adequately in that article. Classic BLP1E. WWGB (talk) 01:26, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
  • I really don't see how BLP1E applies here. The three conditions are met:

1. He was covered more than just the one event, the one source about his assault charge I used was written back in April (I just corrected the date), long before the rally happened.
2. Being that he organized a massive rally, I don't think his intention is to keep a low-profile.
3. The event he is known for is certainly significant and his role in the event as the organizer was certainly substantial (and well-documented)--Rusf10 (talk) 01:58, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

• Except his assault charge was a local one. Not a national one. Remove that charge from the equation, and it still boils down to the same point: he is only nationally notable for the rally. Nothing else. If he starts getting national attention for events other than the rally (a la George Zimmerman), then it can be argued he deserves his own page. Booyahhayoob (talk) 02:40, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
• BLP1E doesn't say anything about being nationally notable at the time an article was written.--Rusf10 (talk) 02:47, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

• WP:NOTNEWS. "While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion." Booyahhayoob (talk) 03:07, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

• Merge into Unite the Right rally: There is no displayed independent notability, with the only inherited notability being his participation in the riot. Additionally, this article appears to be in violation of WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NPOV, as it reads as a newspaper article and one seeking to defend the subject matter at that. DARTHBOTTO _talk•cont 04:02, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
  • The article certainly is not a defense of him. It is merely an attempt to give his background and so the reader can understand why the rally was organized. And the only two conclusions I can come to are either he is insane or he is actually a Democrat plant.--Rusf10 (talk) 16:02, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

There's no need to reply to every vote. DARTHBOTTO _talk•cont 19:36, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

In other words, you have no response. Next time, don't make accusations if you can't defend them.--Rusf10 (talk) 12:12, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Nobody is going to try to interfere with you making ridiculous arguments without evidence like "either he is insane or he is actually a Democrat plant". Your bias is showing (only the right uses "Democrat" as a pejorative) and you're not doing yourself any favors. – Muboshgu (talk) 13:52, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Your bias has shown since day one. You didn't even want to have this discussion. Instead you wanted to circumvent the rules by blanking the page, then expressed frustration that we actually had to go through the proper process when you said "We could've done this the easy way but you insisted on this." So now I got him saying I wrote an article to defend the guy and you're saying I'm attacking him. Makes sense right. Regardless of what I think the article is written to state facts, not opinion. Also you failed to respond to your accusation that the article contains original research when it clearly does not. So either prove that it does or retract your previous comment.--Rusf10 (talk) 16:22, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

• Redirect to Unite the Right rally. I believe that Kessler would go back to relative obscurity. His "alt-right" career appears to be over. WP:BIO1E situation and a separate article is not required. I've seen some coverage of Kessler's life and career prior to the rally, but it's been in local sources, such as "Kessler described as one-time wannabe liberal activist", in a Charlottesville newspaper, The Daily Progress. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:19, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
  • That newspaper seems to be the only source that is accurately covering this, I will use that link as a source, thank you.--Rusf10 (talk) 16:02, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
• Redirect to Unite the Right rally. BLP-1E at this point... Carrite (talk) 11:24, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
• I am glad @Muboshgu: has calmed and we can have a somewhat more rational discussion. Who said anything about WP:OR? If you read up the page, it is a red herring introduced by, you guessed it, user @Muboshgu:. I have reconsidered my vote and wish to change it, for the reason which follows. The SPLC is now being quoted as a reputable source on the Jason Kessler page, to ensure that Kessler is tarred as a "white nationalist". I have no opinion on this issue, but he may feel oppressed by the repetition of a libel on wikipedia. It may be unwise to put WP via participatory libel into Kessler's sights, as he has proven to be a resourceful and tenacious (I might add victorious on 1st amendment grounds to this list) courtroom adversary, and thus WP donors might prefer that it abstain from participatory libel. I believe that is what WP:BLP policy is designed to avoid. Isn't that right, @Jimbo:?
  • The SPLC gave a comprehensive and from what I can see accurate account of this past, but I can certainly look for other sources to replace it.--Rusf10 (talk) 16:12, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
    • For the record, Spem Reduxit claims ownership of the unsigned post two above that ends in an appeal to Jimbo. To @Rusf10:: Other sources would go some way to alleviate my concern, although if you found another source that also referred to him as a "white nationalist" and if he felt oppressed by that terminology, in his eyes the source of the libel (be it SPLC or say the NYT) would matter not a whit, and WP would be pursued for participatory and aggravated libel just the same. Why do you feel such an urge to keep a Kessler WP page? Let him twist in the wind for now, write your own personal notes, and in a year's time if ~~he makes the national news once again, then he will have attained notoriety enough for WP standards and you can say I told you so on Hannity, assuming that the latter hasn't shot himself twice in the back of the head or anything silly like that. Is anyone reading this? Derp derp booyah! Spem Reduxit (talk) 22:07, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
      • That's exactly how I felt about it. Right now, he's nowhere near notable other than organizing the rally. If he does something else that's notable (as I mentioned above, a la George Zimmerman), then it'd be a good idea to make a page about him. And yes, I did solely reply to this because you essentially summoned me with your last sentence XD. Booyahhayoob (talk) 17:30, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
• Merge with Unite the Right rally. Quis separabit? 14:50, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Vote changed to KEEP Quis separabit? 21:11, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

• Merge w/ Unite the Right rally. NAH 14:53, 18 August 2017 (UTC).

Merge Kessler has gotten some coverage independent of the rally from mid-2016 to early 2017. However, the coverage was generally local or bordered on a trivial mention of his participation in various events. I just don't think there is enough here to justify a stand-alone article. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 20:29, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

• Weak Keep Kessler has gotten a lot more coverage in the days since I originally voted merge. I generally prefer for article subjects to have recieved coverage for a longer period of time, but it does not appear like Kessler is going to be leaving the news any time soon. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 20:15, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

• Keep I fear that deletion or merging of this page will be a way that much sourced and useful info is lost.--Yalens (talk) 22:16, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
• Merge with Unite the Right rally - no one is talking about this guy except for his involvement with this one rally. Rockypedia (talk) 05:37, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
• Keep Due to the biographies, etc. published of him; articles about him and of course his involvement in the rally. Editosaurus (talk) 09:10, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
• Merge with Unite the Right rally. This guy is only (in)famous because of it, and it's quite likely that he won't organize anything so notorious ever again; at the same time, this information is important and should be kept somewhere. LahmacunKebab (talk) 16:17, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
• Merge He is infamous for one event, so let's merge this with the article about that event. Any important stuff about him can be included there. This is Paul (talk) 18:20, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
• Keep per GNG. MB298 (talk) 04:52, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
• Keep Merging with Unite the Right rally will lose important information. Many WP:RS have investigated Kessler's background in detail, particularly his conversion from the political left to the right. There's lots of information that goes beyond the two sections in the Unite the Right rally article that (1) has been reported by many WP:RS (2) is important to understanding Kessler's role and (3) is essential for giving all sides of the story and maintaining WP:NPOV. For example, his tweet, “Heather Heyer was a fat, disgusting Communist. Communists have killed 94 million. Looks like it was payback time.” Is that significant? Will that go into the merged article? --Nbauman (talk) 18:29, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
• Keep -- change from 'redirect'. The man does not know when to stop talking. There's already sufficient coverage of him for a stand alone article. K.e.coffman (talk) 21:40, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
• Keep. Even if his notability only derives from the rally, that is enough under the circumstances to make him "interesting," and there is enough information to justify a separate article rather than bloat the rally article. Mewulwe (talk) 00:18, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
• Keep a few days ago "merge" was a possibility, but this just keeps getting more and more coverage.Volunteer Marek (talk) 05:08, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
  • It's all about one event. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:18, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

• Here's another profile, quite in depth: "Living Next Door to a White Supremacist", via The New Yorker. I feel that BIO1E no longer applies, as his role in the event (and post event) has been significant. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:34, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Keep enough coverage Victor Grigas (talk) 00:46, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.