Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jasmin Čampara

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETE. postdlf (talk) 00:15, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jasmin Čampara[edit]

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Contested PROD. Concern was: Article about a footballer who fails WP:GNG and who has not played in a fully pro league. Reason for contesting was: Čampara played last season and this season for the first team of one of the most prominent clubs in Bosnia & Herzegovina in the Premier League of Bosnia and Herzegovina. FK Sarajevo have represented Bosnia in the UEFA Champions League and in the UEFA Europa League. This is not relevant to notability. Bosnian Premier league is not fully pro and therefore insufficient to grant notability under WP:NSPORT, and he has not actually played for Sarajevo internationally. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:54, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:54, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:54, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:54, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:NFOOTY and WP:GNG. Recreate the article if he does go on to play at professional/international level in future. J Mo 101 (talk) 19:42, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per my comments at the article. I would not argue that Jasmin Čampara, however promising, is an outstanding player at this stage of his career, but the basis of deleting the article appears to be that all Bosnian Premier League players without an appearance at international level are deemed non-notable unlike their colleagues in most other European premier leagues. The basis for deletion is that the League has been deemed not fully professional. The article for the Premier League of Bosnia and Herzegovina makes no reference to it being anything other than professional. The list article referenced in WP:NFOOTY points to the League's Constitution as the basis of the decision to classify it as not fully professional but the article (Article 9) cited simply refers to the existence of two categories of club employment, registered player and professional player, without any mention whether the League actually allows registered or any other non-professional player to appear for the club in the League. Without any other evidence the categorisation of the League as not fully professional does not appear at this stage to have been established. Opbeith (talk) 21:55, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - the burden is on you to verify notability, and you can't prove that this player has played in a fully-pro league. This player fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG. Giant Snowman 12:06, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Can't find anything to satisfy WP:GNG so should be deleted, unless we find proof that the bosnian league is fully-pro. doomgaze (talk) 11:08, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No indication that he has played in a fully professional league. Fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG. Argyle 4 Life^talk 23:07, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Observation - My mistake, I was looking at Article 9, not Article 41 of the Bosnian Premier Division Constitution. Article 41, much shorter, says that clubs in the Premier League can sign both professional and amateur players. But again, like Article 9, Article 41 says nothingn about about eligibility to play in the League itself. So is the rule that permits clubs to sign amateur players asa well as professionals sufficient to establish that the League is not a fully professional league? The whole basis of WP:NFOOTBALL's criterion of notability appears rather dubious. It cites as the reference authority Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues, which provides lists of fully professional and not-fully professional leagues without any definition of what a fully professional league actually is. The listings appear to rely on a hotch-potch of citations of varying authority. Argentina's Primera Divison's status relies solely on a webpage reference to the founding of a professional league in 1931 - simply "professional", with no qualifying "fully". No official confirmation. The only accessible reference for Brazil suggests that the only teams that would qualify are the members of the Campeonato Paulista Série A1 - the Campeonato Brasileiro Serie A status is referenced only by a mention as "professional", not "fully professional" in the Campeonato's own Wikipedia article, without a citation to source, while the Campeonato Brasileiro Serie B's status as professional is not substantiated. The combination of WP:NFOOTBALL and Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues would appear to be a substantial distance away from being any sort of reliable source of authority. So before the Čampara article is deleted, can I ask for a definition of a "fully professional" League and for an authoritative ruling that the Bosnia and Herzegovina Premier Division is not a "fully professional league" while the Argentine Primera Division and the Brazilian Campeonato Serie A and Serie B are fully professional?Opbeith (talk) 23:58, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.