Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jameson Raid (band)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. MBisanz ^talk 00:24, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Jameson Raid (band)[edit]

The article subject fails WP:MUSIC notability criteria for inclusion on Wikipedia. The Real Libs-speak politely 18:29, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: trivial coverage. Non-notable band. JamesBurns (talk) 05:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Nominator showed this article to me before submitting for deletion and I concurred that the subject was NN and failed WP:MUSIC. Scarian ^{Call me Pat!} 18:36, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. —--Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 18:46, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I think there are two critera in WP:MUSIC "Criteria for musicians and ensembles" that this band does meet.

Item no.1 "It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable" - the band has been included in two books by notable rock journalist (Martin Poppof and Malc MacMillan) and features in "The International Encyclopedia of Hard Rock And Heavy Metal" by Jasper and Oliver. In MacMillan they get a full biography and history over two pages so it goes beyond "merely trivial coverage".

Item no.6 "Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable". Guitarist Steve Makin was the first guitarist selected to join Slade after the departure of Noddy Holder, where he stayed for 4 years. The article has now been edited to highlight this. SAHBfan (talk) 10:26, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

which two books by Poppof and MacMillan? JamesBurns (talk) 01:59, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The books are referenced in the article. Here they are:

The International Encyclopedia of Hard Rock And Heavy Metal’ by Tony Jasper and Derek Oliver, Sidgwick & Jackson,, 1983

The New Wave Of British Heavy Metal Encyclopedia’ by Malc Macmillan, Iron Pages, 2001

The New Wave Of British Heavy Metal Singles’ by Martin Popoff, Scrap Metal Records, 2005

Suzie Smiled: The New Wave Of British Heavy Metal' by John Tucker, 2006

SAHBfan (talk) 15:59, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 23:59, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment SAHBfan, can you provide page numbers and the like for the references as well as a couple of brief quotes about the band? Thanks, Hobit (talk) 17:10, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Yes, I can do this. Do you mean in the article or here in this discussion? I have a scan of the whole entry from the MacMillan book but obviously can't publish it to the net without breaching his copyright.

In the 2001 edition Jameson Raid starts on page 225, covers the whole of page 226 and a bit of 227. Just checked Amazon and this book is being reprinted, though. You can pre-order the 2009 version, but it isn't out yet so no idea what the page numbers will be in that.

Comment One of the problems of providing ‘reliable references’ for NWOBHM bands is that they predate the WWW.

Jameson Raid satisfies the WP:Music Item 2 criteria because both their EPs were in the top 30 in 'published national charts' (namely Sounds magazine Heavy Metal Chart 1980 and the Alternative Charts 1979) and MFM II was number 30 in the national album charts in 1980. Whilst these are verifiable facts; the charts for 79/80 are not available on the net (as far as I know) and so it is not possible to provide an easy reference. This is something that seems a little ironic to me. I have provided references to the preferred ‘reliable, third party, published sources’ as defined by Wikipedia. Namely: Published Books by reliable, notable Authors. The guidelines specifically excludes most web material. However from reading several of the disputed cases on various deletion threads it appears that many members wish to Google to information on the www to check notability, but for a band from the late 70s / early 80s this information is obviously very limited. I suspect no one in this discussion has, or is in a position to, check the books I have referenced. In theory I could provide scans of the relevant pages if required, but obviously would be in breach of copyright if I attempted to publish them. Frustratingly I even have photocopies of the alternative charts for 1979 / 1980, but what use are they? I could post a picture of myself pointing to the Jameson Raid entry, but I suspect that may not quite be in the spirit of wikipedias 'reliable published sources'! I am open to suggestions.

Please re-read the article. Since the notice of deletion I have added additional inline citations and extended the list of external links to include Rockdetector, spirit-of-metal and other third party sites. SAHBfan (talk) 10:41, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Given the above sourcing. Hobit (talk) 12:38, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.