Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Józef Turowski

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. ST47 (talk) 17:01, 2 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Józef Turowski[edit]

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Article reads like a PROMO for the book. Not close to meeting NPROF (h-index of around 3). Seems his main claim to significance is co-authoring a book with Władysław Siemaszko on massacres of Poles in Ukraine which was published after his death. Note he partially shares a name with Kazimierz Józef Turowski - a 19th century author who is more notable (though possibly not English WikiNotable).Icewhiz (talk) 15:15, 26 May 2019 (UTC) Icewhiz (talk) 15:15, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 15:15, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 15:15, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 15:15, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 15:15, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 15:15, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep. Received Virtuti Militari (source), Poland's highest military decoration, and so passes WP:SOLDIER. As for NPROF, yes, probably he is not passing that one. It's a bit hard to judge the impact of pre-Internet, non-English sources. (Google Scholar shows a single, offline book review... at least what I think might be a book review), so I would probably NPOV the article by removing peacock language about his book being ground-breaking, etc. unless sources for such assessment are provided. Google Books shows ~80 citations for the Polish language of the title of the book ' Deportacje i przemieszczenia ludności polskiej w głąb ZSRR 1939- 1945', which is not too bad for a Polish-language 1989 history book (and of course Google Books is not the best citation index, but I am not aware of any others). His second book, 'Pozoga: walki 27 Wołyńskiej Dywizji AK', seems to roughly get a similar citation count and possibly one offline book review indexed by GScholar (and GScholar gives 9 citaitons for it, [1], but GBooks suggest more that are not caught up by Scholar, again). So, NPROF wise, he is not an academic, but his two books had 'some' impact. Enough? Errr... Ditto, for NCREATIVE. Probably on the wrong side of borderline. Finally, fails general GNG. I don't see any significant sources about the subject, a single interview in a Polish newspaper (and covered in associated radio station [2]) is all I see. But again, as he passes SOLDIER criteria for highest medal of valor from the Polish nation, that should be sufficient. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:01, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
One or two books cited by others is not close to passing PROF. SOLDIER is an essay, not a guideline, and is not a criteria for speedy keep (nor for retention - we have deleted subjects who have failed GNG but passed SOLDIER). Furthermore he clearly fails WP:SOLDIER - per the cited source he received the V class (Silver cross) of the Virtuti Militari - [3] per the footnote accompanying SOLDIER - ">What constitutes the "highest" award has been the subject of debate on Wikipedia. Some awards, such as the Légion d'Honneur and the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross, are/were bestowed in different grades and/or have civil and military versions. For the purpose of this notability guide it is considered that only the highest military grade of such awards is likely to result in significant coverage to confer notability, although the case of recipients of lower grades needs to be considered carefully as some will potentially have this coverage also, while even some recipients of the highest grade may not. A discussion regarding awards with multiple grades can be found here.". The 5th grade of the Virtuti Militari is not close to be the "highest" award for valor - tens of thousands of such awards have been handed out. Icewhiz (talk) 05:44, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to see a discussion about VM grades to be sure it is in the same group. Either way, I stand by my view - VM, +some evidence of impact of his research, is enough for me. We have really spammy sport / business bio / corp entries to hunt, no need to worry too much about borderline activists and scholars, particularly when it's clear that we have a serious problem with the proportion of things like sport to academic bios. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:32, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes NPROF according to 1 and 8 7.Volunteer Marek (talk) 05:32, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
NPROF(8) is "The person is or has been head or chief editor of a major well-established academic journal in their subject area" - no source supporting this has been proffered (and it seems unlikely). Have one or two works (co-authored in this case)) that are cited by others (per Piotrus - 80, I see 18 in google books - and some of them are not academic. Google scholar (which filters out non-academic works) - shows 10) is not close to meeting NPROF(1).Icewhiz (talk) 05:50, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You're right I meant 7.Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:05, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"7. The person has made substantial impact outside academia in their academic capacity." - certainly a novel claim here, as there is no indication that the subject had academic training or was in academia (we do have a source saying he, with his co-author, was "associated with Polish veterans’ organizations", hence "in their academic capacity" is unmet. It is also hard for him to meet the cited criteria of PROF-7 - "frequently quoted in conventional media as an academic expert in a particular area" (which generally requires sources in !vote) due to his death prior to publication. Icewhiz (talk) 07:12, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

NPROF 1, perhaps, but better sources are needed to evaluate the impact of his books. Just being cited a bit is not sufficient, I'd like to see at least one academic source that calls at least one of his books significant. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:26, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Józef Turowski is the author of Pożoga: Walki 27 Wołyńskiej Dywizji AK (Conflagration: Battles of the Home Army's 27th Wołyń Division), published in 1990 by the very reputable Warsaw publisher, Państwowe Wydawnictwo Naukowe; and, with Władysław Siemaszko, of Zbrodnie nacjonalistów ukraińskich dokonane na ludności polskiej na Wołyniu 1939-1945 (Crimes Committed by Ukrainian Nationalists against Wołyń's Polish Population, 1939–1945), published in 1990 in Warsaw by the Chief Commission for the Investigation of Nazi Crimes in Poland and the Institute of National Remembrance. Turowski's writings are cited in a number of English-language Wikipedia articles. A discussion of his Conflagration, within the broader context of writings on the subject, may be found at: [4]. Nihil novi (talk) 12:00, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The "Józef Turowski" article has been re-edited for compliance with Wikipedia standards. Nihil novi (talk) 19:40, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.