Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Independent Union (political party)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. ST47 (talk) 03:56, 7 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Independent Union (political party)[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Effectively a local grouping of councillors. Its only coverage is trivial, primary, or from a local newspaper. Details can be merged into their (former) leader's article or Hartlepool Borough Council. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 00:38, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 00:38, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: IU is a registered political party, not simply a grouping. The very same logic could be applied for most articles in Category:United Kingdom political party stubs as the majority have worse referencing (if any) and the parties largely lack any representation, and if they do it is far less than eight councillors. The content on John Tennant I added before he was elected and was added after I created the page. I added most of this to Tennnant's page so a merge is not really possible as the info about him is already there. A section about a political party on a politicians page is going to cause someone else (not me) to eventually make a page for the party, especially when they represent a majority at a unitary council, which makes deletion pointless in the long run. Also I can find no evidence to suggest he has stepped down, which means he's likely still the leader. UaMaol (talk) 01:33, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 07:40, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is a registered party, I only said it is effectively a grouping on the council. As per the only source directly about them: it was created "to help them stand out at the polls" and "Only independents within a group can hope to achieve significant influence". I agree that there are others of similar lack of notability/coverage in that category, but we're looking at this one right now. They don't have a majority on Hartlepool Council, they have 8 of 33 seats. If we apply WP:POLITICIAN, only "international, national, or sub-national (e.g., province- or state-wide)" are presumed to be notable, a unitary authority doesn't qualify. Details of the party's creation can be moved to Hartlepool Borough Council#History. As for Tennnant, given that he is representing a different party as an MEP, its almost certain that he has left.

Keep For reasons given above. Coverage may not be widespread, but it is not trivial. Emeraude (talk) 09:58, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is a single article that concerns this party, and it is from a local newspaper. All other coverage is either primary (the council's website) or very briefly mentions the party in relation to people being elected (either as council leader or elected to the party). There is not significant coverage from multiple, reliable sources. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 10:38, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to the leader of the party would be misleading when it is another of their councillors who is leader of the council. The "European election" section should be removed as it isn't about the council. Articles such as this are usually kept; it could be merged to 2019 Hartlepool Borough Council election when that is created. WP:POLITICIAN applies to politicians, not to parties, but unitary authorities are equivalent to counties and are the highest tier below UK government in their areas. Peter James (talk) 21:52, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct that WP:POLITICIAN is specifically about people rather than parties, I referred to it because it maps across. I would argue that there is a level of government missing in England: Unitary authorities and County councils (etc) are not "sub-national (e.g., province- or state-wide)", but the devolved administrations (Scottish Parliament, Welsh, NI and London Assemblies) are. This is a party that operates entirely within a single unit of local government that is sub-"sub-national".

I agree with you that this shouldn't be redirected to Tennnant's article. Would a redirect to Hartlepool Borough Council (and associated merging of details) not also be appropriate given that the 2019 election is a red link? Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 21:11, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure you understand what a unitary authority (such as Hartlepool) is. In England, it is the highest level of government after national, so not sub-sub-national at all. Emeraude (talk) 06:47, 2 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Emeraude: as per WP:POLITICIAN, sub-national is defined as "e.g., province- or state-wide". There is no possible stretch of the imagination that can equate Hartlepool Borough Council with a provincial (eg Legislative Assembly of Ontario) or state-wide (eg Texas Legislature) body. As stated above, there are sub-national bodies in the UK, but they are lacking in England outside of London.

If you really are arguing that the 216 County Councils and unitary authorities [1] should be counted as sub-national bodies, then according to WP:POLITICIAN every member of those councils is automatically considered to to be notable ("The following are presumed to be notable: Politicians and judges who have held international, national, or sub-national (e.g., province- or state-wide) office, or have been members of legislative bodies at those levels." If we look at WP:POLOUTCOMES for further examples, "Elected and appointed political figures at [...] major sub-national level (US state, Canadian province, Japanese prefecture, etc.)." usually survive AfD. Hartlepool Borough has a population of c. 93,000, not the millions that make up the example sub-national bodies. Outside of London, there is a missing level of legislature which means governance jumps straight from national to local level. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 14:30, 2 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Articles about councillors elected at this level are usually deleted, but articles about their parties usually survive. I'm only unsure whether this should be kept because they are only notable for one election (although with more than one candidate elected) so far. Peter James (talk) 18:26, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: as per above; this is a registered political party that is involved in a governing coalition in a local authority. --RaviC (talk) 00:26, 5 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.