Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ibn Sbyel

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was KEEP. postdlf (talk) 15:26, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ibn Sbyel[edit]

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no indication of notability. google searches on the article name come up with exactly 2 hits - this article and a mirror of it. noq (talk) 01:12, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Middle East-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 02:45, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 02:45, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep,The Ibn Sbyel are noble Arab Bedouins because they own one of the largest Arabian Horse stubs in the world, Plus I've put some sources so you can believe that the information in this article are true, and so you can discuss it with me, Go check them out before you delete the artical .

-Restored edit by User:Al Qurashi that had overwritten the rest of this page. noq (talk) 11:28, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, per Al Qurashi with added refs. FieldMarine (talk) 12:04, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The online references given at the moment do not appear to mention the family at all. One of them is a wiki page and the other is a forum posting. Most of the off-line references seem to be about horse bloodlines and not the family. As stated above, google searches only come up with the wiki article for this family - and if they own one of the largest studs in the world I would have thought that more information would be available online about them. noq (talk) 13:10, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as per previous comment and the fact that much of this page does not follow MOS. Do not really think this is notable.Jasper Deng (talk) 21:56, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment,Keep it I removed this article from the noble families category but if you read the books and ask the WAHO you will see that the information in this article is true . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fkjms73 (talk • contribs) 00:02, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Are you the same editor as User:Al Qurashi as implied by this [1]? noq (talk) 11:07, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - yes, Did I do something wrong ?

Comment see WP:SOCKPUPPET. You represented yourself as two separate users on this discussion which is not allowed. noq (talk) 21:43, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, Check Page 441 & 442 in Modern Arabian Horse Sire Lines by \ Hamad AL-Jasser, Translate the Arabian Horse article in Prince Alwaled Ibn Talal's official website from Arabic to English http://www.qwled.com/vb/t27855.html , And then decide if delete the article or not, And I say not because Arabs know about there horse stubs and there nobles more than us . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akoor2005 (talk • contribs) 14:48, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have already run it through google translator - it appears to be a forum and does not mention the family so I do not see how this helps. Again as I commented earlier, why if they own the biggest arab stud in the world has google never heard of them? Out of interest, why did you choose this deletion debate to be your ownly contribution to wikipedia to date? noq (talk) 21:43, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Hey Noq, What's up, so I found this article thought you might check it out http://www.qwled.com/vb/t183807.html#post2166490 , And did you read Page 441 & 442 in Modern Arabian Horse Sire Lines by \ Hamad AL-Jasser ? , or communicate with the WAHO ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akoor2005 (talk • contribs) 21:12, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have looked at the link you provided but it appears to be a forum and I cannot see the family mentioned at all so I do not see how it helps(I am using google translate to read it). noq (talk) 00:54, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Noq you asked a good question and I will answer you hopefully you understand, First the Ibn Sbyle familly are Sheiks from a nomadic bedouin tribe called Annizah who became interisted by orientalists because there Arabian horse stubs, And There horse stubs are mentioned in there books but there names are rearlly written in there books, And now the new generations of educated arabs are trying let the world know about them since this kind of technology became available to us recently due to the dictatorship in our govrnments, And unlike you my dear brother noq we just started to write down our history since it was memorized oraly be our elders, while you elders wrote about our elder's horses like Carl Raswan who wrote about Arabian Horses that was owned by Annizah . And the second thing most of us don't speak english, And that's why you don't find any thing about them in google, If you want to search about them go to google Saudi Arabia and type down this Arabic word which is there name "ابن سبيل قبيلة عنزة" . Finally Ii thank you . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Al Qurashi (talk • contribs) 21:56, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Unfortunately Wikipedia policies require significant coverage in independent sources to establish notability. I still am not seeing that. I have not looked in the quoted bloodline books but fail to see how that will establish notability for the family. My initial point remains that if they are owners of one of the largest studs for Arabian horses I would expect at least something naming them on google but I am not finding that at all. The online links that have been given do not appear to mention ibn Sybel at all. noq (talk) 00:54, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I've read the article that akoor2005 put, It's all about the Ibn Sbyel family . And about google translator it's translation are not exactlly accurate, For example try to translate this Arabic sentence that means Ibn Sbyel family "عائلة ابن سبيل" it will be translated as "I'm for the family" , So we need a trusted wikipedia professional Arabic Translator to translate these sources you have been given. And you said your self that you did not look in the books I gave you, I have one copy of Hamamd AL-Jasser's book myself and I'm willing to scan the pages that mention Ibn Sbyel, up load it, and put it here in this discussion . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Al Qurashi (talk • contribs) 12:03, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment As stated before it is also a forum posting and as such is not considered a WP:reliable source. noq (talk) 19:23, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, This family currently are normal Saudi people but back in the Ottoman Era they used to own one of the biggest Arabian horse stables in Arabia . Even after they sold their horses to monarchs like the Saudi King & big shot millionaires they're still considered as the owners of the sire-line of the Ma'anagi Sbyeli stud in the eyes of the WAHO, The Arabian Horse owners, And The Arabs. Therefore they're still considered in the eyes of Arabian tribes as Noblemen, Because since the times of the old Ishmaelites in the traditions of the Arabian tribes the horse stub doesn't change its name & ownership unless a knight loots it from its owner or by giving the stub away and not by selling the horses. Here is a link from the WAHO, If you go to Syrain Stub book you can see the name of the owners of the horses but still the stubs didn't change its names if you look you can see the Ma'anagi Sbyeli stud & Ma'anagi Hidraji stud among the names http://www.waho.org/History.html . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Majedinho (talk • contribs) 15:01, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have read the section you linked to above but it does not discuss the family - it mentions bloodlines, one of which ends "Sbeylieh" which I assume is supposed to be this family. I am not seeing anything in a reliable source that discusses the family as opposed to the bloodline. Incidentally, why did you choose this debate to be your first contribution to Wikipedia? I have noticed that most of the keep !votes are coming from editors with no previous history - have you been directed here from somewhere else? noq (talk) 19:23, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Noq take a good look at these links:

http://www.google.com.sa/m/search?sa=2&q=%22Sbe%27yel%22&site=universal

http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/anne-blunt/bedouin-tribes-of-the-euphrates-hci/page-7-bedouin-tribes-of-the-euphrates-hci.shtml — Preceding unsigned comment added by Al Qurashi (talk • contribs) 00:29, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Not really significant coverage - "Ibn Sbeyel, of the Gomussa, a tribe of Sebaa Anazeh, possesses the most esteemed strain of Maneghi Hedruj." is the entire entry about the tribe - rather than the horse bloodline. noq (talk) 01:19, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: This seems borderline in its current state, but i'm not convinced its not notable. Colorable claim of notability is made in this discussion.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 03:11, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Oh here's another link :

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks:1&q=%22Ibn+Sbyel%22&safe=active

Comment Again, its mainly about bloodlines and only an offhand mention of the family. noq (talk) 13:09, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: There's no need to leave this open in the carry over lists, its either a keep or no consensus, no consensus to delete.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 03:33, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.