Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IHateJulian

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Missvain (talk) 23:12, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

IHateJulian[edit]

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Fails GNG Patriot0239 (talk) 07:11, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Patriot0239 (talk) 07:11, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As per significant coverage in multiple reliable sources including The Hype Magazine, Newsbreak, Genius, Deezer, Flipboard, The Source and more. Aboussta (talk) 07:18, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

These are not stong sources. We may need coverage on more reliable sources. Patriot0239 (talk) 07:24, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's tougher to get coverage in these sources especially in African countries as compared to developed countries. These are well known newspapers and magazines in Jamaica especially The Hype Magazine, Newsbreak, Genius, The Source, Deezer, Flipboard. Aboussta (talk) 07:29, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete the sources used are blackhat SEO and PR spam. YODADICAE👽 14:07, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Caribbean-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep passes WP:GNG based on the sources although some of the references have a promotional tone this could be a cultural attribute. Purosinaloense T/K 11:43, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~Very weak keep at best.~~ Delete or dratify at worst. If the Hype, Newsbreak, Source, and Flipboard sources are reliable, then I'm stating ~~Weak keep~~ because they're brief and only talk about specific music videos and songs, which is not necessarily SIGCOV of the rapper himself. I would reject the Deezer and Genius examples because they're user-generated and self-published, making them unusable per WP:UCG. However, this is yet another one of those artists where most of the coverage is in the form of pieces about specific recently-released songs and interviews, which are from independent publications and magazines that look professional but have been accused by users of this encyclopedia of being PR or accepting paid pieces. It's definitely true publications of all industries, not just the music press, are just basically promotional tools (I'd argue the NYTimes and the LATimes are promo press for works of industries from their respective places, and Jacobin, Reason.com, The Nation, and Breibart are promo tools for political causes), and it sickens me to know that, but claims that specific articles are PR or "blackhat SEO" are loaded and need darn good evidence.
The most common evidence I've seen is that there are fiverr pages stating they can help you get an interview or piece on one of many major publications. Thus, any piece from the sources listed on those pages are unreliable because the publications don't state they're accepting paid pieces. However, we don't know whether those are legit or just scammers using bot ratings to look like credible people, thus we don't know if even sources like HipHopDX and the Source use paid and PR pieces. There's also people claiming themselves to be agents on the internet promising artists gigs at notable venues or a filmmaker their work submitted at Sundance, but does that mean Sundance and notable venues are no-longer reputable institutions? No, because it's likely people like that are lying, and there's a possibility those Fiverr pieces are doing the same. I imagine a lot of music sources, including even the most-respected ones like Pitchfork and NME, use PR agents and get money from labels to promote artists with positive reviews of albums and interviews, but I got nothing to prove that. 👨x🐱 (talk) 20:56, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The sources being used here are not even high quality paid sources, they're flat out black hat SEO and none of them are reliable and have been extensively discussed at WP:RSN and through several AFDs. We do know that Newsbreak isn't an RS and Flipboard because they are user generated and user hosted. YODADICAE👽 20:59, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Newsbreak is user-generated? Well, the more you know. Delete and reject my "Weak keep" proposal. 👨x🐱 (talk) 21:03, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The Newsbreak source is a blocked site on Wiki, but some of his other coverage are good. Also, having been on Radio and Top 50 means that he meets WP:MUSICBIO.Lesliechin1 (talk) 22:23, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Per above passes WP:NMUSIC notable singer specifically within Africa. Although, the article can be improved further. Peneplavím (talk) 16:01, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The keep votes here are baseless and its clear editors are not actually looking at the sources, just the number. Further, "within Africa" doesn't matter, especially considering he's Jamaican. See the SA below:

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table:
https://www.thehypemagazine.com/2020/10/ihatejulian-i-aint-impressed/	pay for publication, blackhat SEO		✘ No
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2217475495191/ihatejulian-focuses-on-his-video-dropping-this-may	news aggregator by AI		✘ No
https://www.hollywoodheat.net/ihatejulian-a-rising-independent-artist-with-jamaican-roots/	?	no indication of editorial oversight, appears to just be a hobby blog	✘ No
https://fmhiphop.com/ihatejulian-is-taking-over-the-music-entertainment-industry/	part of a PR spam campaign	not an rs, new site, no editorial oversight or meaningful history	✘ No
https://genius.com/albums/Ihatejulian/Moody-by-ihatejulian	just a listing of his music	~ only for primary info	✘ No
https://thesource.com/2021/04/15/ihatejulian-has-more-in-store-for-the-fans-with-new-visual/	?	i have serious doubts about the reliability of a source whose first sentence begins "The music career has become more challenging at this period due to the restrictions put in place by the government. ihateJulian, who embarked in the music career at the start of last year, has astonished many for his high starting spirit as he has been releasing hits after hits, and is not yet done!"	✘ No
https://www.deezer.com/en/artist/87794182			✘ No
https://flipboard.com/article/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.influencive.com%2Fihatejulians-new-video-to-give-second-life-to-moody-project%2F	rehash from influencive which is a pr/marketing site (ie. black hat seo)		✘ No
https://hiphop-paradise.com/ihatejulian-set-to-drop-three-music-videos-by-17th-may/	just a basic announcement that could only come from the artist himself		✘ No
http://voyagemia.com/interview/meet-julian-hanlan-ihatejulian-broward-county-south-florida/	voyagemia and its sister sites are black hat SEO "interview" sites that republish paid for content		✘ No
https://thegridmagazine.com/2020/09/29/ihatejulian-i-aint-impressed-remix-ft-starling-lee-cavalli/	more pr		✘ No
https://www.tampafp.com/hip-video-promo-presents-ihatejulian-gets-distracted-in-music-clip-i-aint-impressed-remix-ft-starling-lee-cavalli/	press release		✘ No
https://disruptmagazine.com/ihatejulians-coming-videos-are-of-exceptional-quality/	disruptmagazine is a well known black hat SEO site		✘ No
https://kazimagazine.com/indie-spotlight/ihatejulian-has-proven-himself/		appears to be a fan blog/not subject to meaningful editorial oversight	✘ No
https://thisis50.com/2021/04/26/ihatejulian-focuses-on-his-video-dropping-this-may/		based off of the press release a few sources up	✘ No
https://hiphopsince1987.com/2021/music/another-chart-topping-video-by-ihatejulian-to-be-released-soon/	clearly based off of a press release given the same grammatical errors as the source		✘ No
https://unsignedheat.com/2021/05/06/video-ihatejulian-come-wit-it/	same rehash of "will release a video"	just a blog	✘ No
http://itsbizkit.com/video-ihatejulian-come-wit-it/	basically hte same as 17		✘ No
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm6451412/		ugen	✘ No
http://theblackjuice.com/2016/10/24/web-series-onthecomeup-close-friends/	press release		✘ No
https://redxmagazine.com/ihatejulian-plans-for-more-in-future/		brand new site, no history and no editorial oversight	✘ No
https://www.maverickentertainment.cc/movies/true-colors/	just a listing from the film		✘ No
https://songbpm.com/@ihatejulian/which-one	for the same reason a measurement of an ig account isn't independent or reliable		✘ No
https://essentiallypop.com/epop/2020/10/ihatejulian-i-aint-impressed/	?	essentially pop has no history or indication of meaningful editorial oversight	✘ No
http://citrusrap.com/blog/2021/01/22/the-bandemic-is-real-a-conversation-with-ihatejulian/		just a blog	✘ No
https://www.genzhiphop.com/julian-a-highly-distinguished-actor-director-and-musician/		just another run of hte mill blog	✘ No
https://maxedhiphop.com/?p=2386			✘ No
Error: a source must be specified			? Unknown
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

YODADICAE👽 16:16, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the sources here are probably not that good, but I find the Kazi mag description of "appears to be a fan blog/not subject to meaningful editorial oversight" to be odd. In my view, the professional layout and design, plus it being constantly updating and having multiple writers doesn't necessarily scream fan site to me. However, the website doesn't make clear it's staff or other info about the publication itself, so that's a valid concern. 👨x🐱 (talk) 23:56, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I also agree that some of the sources are not that good as compared to coverage other musicians get especially from developed countries like the US, UK, Canada, etc. As he hails from an African country where there is little to no coverage online to a large amount of population getting this much coverage is quite tough. Although, I am not sure that if he qualifies for GNG or not but he surely qualifies for WP:NMUSIC because his some songs like "I Ain't Impressed received a good amount of attention in Nigeria and was featured on BET JAMS in 2020 and was also covered in different music websites like Hiphop-Paradise, The Source, Essentially Pop, Genius, The Hype Magazine, Hollywood Heat, Vents Magazine, Kazi Magazine. Skope Mag and others which can surely make him qualify for WP:MUSIC. Aboussta (talk) 05:57, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

YODADICAE👽 already went over why those sources were unreliable. See the table. 👨x🐱 (talk) 00:36, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have already followed the table and didn't added those sources which were marked crossed there. I only showed those sources which shows that his songs like I ain't impressed received significant coverage. As per WP:NMUSIC criteria's. He qualifies WP:NMUSIC Criteria #12 which states that subject has been a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or television network. He was featured in BET Jams which is an American pay television network controlled by BET Networks and owned by ViacomCBS Domestic Media Networks. The channel features hip-hop and urban contemporary music videos. The network, formerly known as MTV Jams, was rebranded under the BET banner on October 5, 2015. His music video "I Ain't Impressed" was featured on BET JAMS in 2020 which meets this criteria and clearly qualifies him for WP:NMUSIC. Aboussta (talk)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 16:18, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Sources are vague. Darktaste (talk) 12:30, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep the topic seems to meet WP:NMUSICIAN as some of his songs are listed on the major television networks.Jaysonsands (talk) 18:33, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above an easy pass for WP:MUSIC. Rickshaw Takahashi (talk) 06:15, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes WP:MUSIC per listing on some major tv networks. INeedToFlyForever (talk) 14:58, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.