Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hui Lau Shan

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Black Kite (talk) 18:15, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hui Lau Shan[edit]

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This is advertising. The Google Translation of the Chinese WP article [1]is so much more objective, that this should be removed, and a new article substituted. DGG ( talk ) 15:00, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 16:40, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 16:40, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hong Kong-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 16:40, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I reviewed and copy-edited the article with additional sources, including Chinese-language sources. I also expanded the contents with reference to the corresponding article in Chinese Wikipedia. While this article still needs more work, I believe it looks much less of an advertisement now then it was when it was nominated. I hope my edits has sufficiently addressed the concerns brought up by the nominator. (P.S. I understand the article was not nominated for lack of notability, but for the sake of completeness of the argument, I would note that the franchise is popular in Hong Kong, and well covered in reliable English and Chinese language sources: 1, 2, 3.) --Dps04 (talk) 13:31, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.

Evans, Grant; Tam, Maria (2004) [1997]. Hong Kong: Anthropological Essays on a Chinese Metropolis. London: Routledge. pp. 64–66. ISBN 0-7007-0601-1. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
Sun, Celine (2012-08-07). "Dessert chain offers place to chill out". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2014-03-25. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
Do, Je-hae (2017-07-12). "Asia's hot desserts now". The Korea Times. Archived from the original on 2020-05-03. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
Hang, Kristie (2019-08-26). "Hong Kong's Most Famous Mango Dessert Shop Opens in Irvine". Eater. Archived from the original on 2020-05-03. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
Long, Katherine Khashimova (2019-12-02). "Crazy about mango desserts? At Hui Lau Shan in Redmond, 5,040 mangoes a week make it summer all year 'round". The Seattle Times. Archived from the original on 2020-05-03. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
Quek, Eunice (2020-01-17). "Mango dessert specialist Hui Lau Shan back in Singapore". The Straits Times. Archived from the original on 2020-05-03. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
Cheng, Chen (2001). "Eating Hong Kong's Way Out". In Cwiertka, Katarzyna Joanna; Walraven, Boudewijn (eds.). Asian Food: The Global and the Local. Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press. pp. 28–29. ISBN 0-8248-2544-6. Retrieved 2020-05-03.

Sources with quotes

Evans, Grant; Tam, Maria (2004) [1997]. Hong Kong: Anthropological Essays on a Chinese Metropolis. London: Routledge. pp. 64–66. ISBN 0-7007-0601-1. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
The book notes:
Herbal tea shops? The case of Hui Lau Shan

Hui Lau Shan has been the most prominent of all among Chinese herb tea permit holders. Its first shop was founded in Yuen Long before the 1970's, most famous for its turtle jelly. In the 1990's, its arrival in Causeway Bay, one of the busiest business districts on Hong Kong island, as a herbal tea shop was accompanied by the introduction of fresh fruit desserts with sago. The fresh fruit sago business has become synonymous with Hui Lau Shan, which has claimed to be the creator of 'fresh fruit sago mix (首創鮮果西米露)'. Their business has also expanded into selling 'handmade beef balls'. The diversification of its products from turtle jelly and herbal tea to fresh fruit sago mix and related desserts, and now to beefballs, has led to an 'identity crisis' in 1994.
It has established itself more as a fruit and dessert shop than a herbal tea shop. The display of fresh fruits and the counter with blenders filled with different fruit juices in every shop is a far cry from herbal tea shops. Many of those who have visited Hui Lau Shan are not even aware of the availability of twenty-four herb tea and turtle jelly. Others said they would go to other shops for these traditional items for Hui is only good for desserts. Few recognise it as a herbal tea shop and as one of my informants pointed out that the Taoist urn is not present anymore. Hui Lau Shan has marginalized herbal tea to a self-service counter which is obviously designed to discourage people from consuming drinks (HK$5-10) inside the shop, saving seats for those who are paying much more for the fruit desserts (HK$20-35).
...
At the same time, Hui Lau Shan is facing a 'crisis of identity' because it has violated the Urban Services Department's regulations on herbal tea shops. ... The statistical growth of herbal tea shops would look very different without Hui Lau Shan, which has deviated from official as well as popular conceptions of herbal tea shops. The case of Hui Lau Shan makes it necessary to look at the popularity of these shops in another light.
Sun, Celine (2012-08-07). "Dessert chain offers place to chill out". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2014-03-25. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
The article notes:
Hong Kong dessert shop chain Hui Lau Shan is speeding up its expansion across the border with the aim of becoming a popular hangout modelled after Starbucks.
The company, known for its 'mango platter' and 'glutinous rice balls in mango juice' dishes, plans to more than double its total number of shops to 250 by the end of next year. More than half of the new shops will be located on the mainland targeting young consumers.
...
In 1992, the brand launched a new product, 'mango sago', which was well received by customers and earned it a reputation for top-notch fresh fruit desserts. The company now offers about 100 kinds of fruit desserts, drinks and snacks, and operates roughly 110 shops in Hong Kong, mainland China and Malaysia.
In July 2007, the third-generation owner of the family business sold Hui Lau Shan to Malaysian private equity firm Navis Capital Partners.
...
Hui Lau Shan opened the first mainland shop in Shenzhen in 2008 and has since set up outlets in Shanghai, Hangzhou, Suzhou, Guangzhou, Zhongshan and Foshan. In the first half of this year, it opened four shops in Beijing and two in Tianjin.
Do, Je-hae (2017-07-12). "Asia's hot desserts now". The Korea Times. Archived from the original on 2020-05-03. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
The article notes:
I was thrilled when Hui Lau Shan, a chain of dessert shops from Hong Kong with more than a 50-year history, finally arrived in Korea earlier this year. The store specializes in mango-based snacks and desserts and is one of the most popular destinations for Korean visitors to Hong Kong. Hui Lau Shan has been expanding outside of Hong Kong and China for some time, but its arrival in Korea was unexpected because I didn't think there was a huge market for snacks made out of mango in Korea. Every time I go to Hui Lau Shan near my home, there is a long line of people waiting for their orders.
There are many Hui Lau Shan outlets in Hong Kong, and my go-to store is the one near Harbour City, the largest shopping mall in Hong Kong. One of my favorite things to do in Hong Kong is to enjoy its iconic skyline from the Avenue of Stars and take a long walk with a Hui Lau Shan mango drink. It's comforting to know that I can get my favorite mango drink anytime without traveling all the way to Hong Kong.
Hang, Kristie (2019-08-26). "Hong Kong's Most Famous Mango Dessert Shop Opens in Irvine". Eater. Archived from the original on 2020-05-03. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
The article notes:
Hong Kong’s famous dessert shop Hui Lau Shan opened its first California outpost in Irvine on August 25. The popular mango-centric dessert chain, which has more than 300 locations around the world, brings its signature fresh fruit desserts to Orange County, with plans to eventually expand into the greater Los Angeles area and San Diego.
Hui Lau Shan has come a long way from its roots as a traditional herbal tea shop in the early 1960s, where it sold herbal teas, herbal jellies, and other nutritional supplements. At the time, there was high demand for Hui Lau Shan’s tortoise jelly, or guilinggao, and bird’s nest, as they were said to have numerous beauty and health benefits. It wasn’t until 1992 when the establishment added fresh mango sago (a kind of starch extracted from palm stems) desserts to their menu that it became an international sensation.
In Hong Kong, there is a branch of Hui Lau Shan virtually everywhere you turn. The bright, eye-catching yellow and red signs are more popular than Starbucks or McDonalds. Hui Lau Shan is popular for being a casual, affordable, and take-out friendly dessert shop. Each store is so busy in Hong Kong that it’s nearly impossible to secure a seat inside, with many people having to share tables with strangers if they choose to dine in.
Long, Katherine Khashimova (2019-12-02). "Crazy about mango desserts? At Hui Lau Shan in Redmond, 5,040 mangoes a week make it summer all year 'round". The Seattle Times. Archived from the original on 2020-05-03. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
The article notes:
In its home base of Hong Kong, the much-loved Hui Lau Shan chain is Starbucks-like in its ubiquity. What began as a roving snack trolley in the 1960s vaulted into global popularity a decade ago and now has nearly 300 branches across the Pacific Rim.
The cheery Redmond franchise, the first full-fledged Hui Lau Shan outpost in the U.S., opened in July. Owner Lisa Li is targeting a Dec. 8 opening day for a new branch in downtown Bellevue.
Quek, Eunice (2020-01-17). "Mango dessert specialist Hui Lau Shan back in Singapore". The Straits Times. Archived from the original on 2020-05-03. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
The article notes:
Famed Hong Kong dessert chain Hui Lau Shan - best known for its mango desserts - is back in Singapore, after closing its Orchard Road store 15 years ago.
Its first outlet opened on Wednesday at Nex, followed by two more to open soon at Chinatown Point and Jem mall.
...
According to the brand's website, Hui Lau Shan was founded in Hong Kong in the 1960s. Back then, it sold herbal jelly and herbal tea.
In the 1980s, the menu expanded with the addition of dishes such as red bean jelly and pan-fried radish cake. In 1992, Hui Lau Shan created the recipe for its popular mango sago.
Cheng, Chen (2001). "Eating Hong Kong's Way Out". In Cwiertka, Katarzyna Joanna; Walraven, Boudewijn (eds.). Asian Food: The Global and the Local. Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press. pp. 28–29. ISBN 0-8248-2544-6. Retrieved 2020-05-03.
The article notes:
The new wave of herbal tea shops adopt names reminiscent of a traditional world that customers could be assured of their Chinese origins – Hui Lau Shan (héui làuh sàan – a famous herbal tea shop in Yuen Long, New Territories before the 1970s), ...
...
Herbal teas have been sidelined by freshly squeezed and blended fruit juices and desserts. Hui Lau Shan prospered with their sago fruit mix and expanded to almost 40 branches between 1992–94.

There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Hui Lau Shan to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

Cunard (talk) 10:51, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

From Eater, "In Hong Kong, there is a branch of Hui Lau Shan virtually everywhere you turn. The bright, eye-catching yellow and red signs are more popular than Starbucks or McDonalds."
From a 2004 Routledge book, "Hui Lau Shan has been the most prominent of all among Chinese herb tea permit holders."
From The Seattle Times, "In its home base of Hong Kong, the much-loved Hui Lau Shan chain is Starbucks-like in its ubiquity. What began as a roving snack trolley in the 1960s vaulted into global popularity a decade ago and now has nearly 300 branches across the Pacific Rim."
Wikipedia:Editing policy#Wikipedia is a work in progress: perfection is not required. When nominated for deletion, the article contained several promotional sentences but the article overall was not so promotional that it should have been deleted.
Thank you, Dps04 (talk · contribs), for your substantial work on cleaning up and expanding the article.
Cunard (talk) 10:51, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 17:00, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment to closing admin / other participants: please compare the article as it is with the version when it was tagged for deletion. I have rewritten much of the article, and I believe this has addressed the advertising concerns of the nominator. See above for my arguments that the article has passed GNG. --Dps04 (talk) 12:49, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.