Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Horse Sales

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 19:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Horse Sales[edit]

Horse Sales (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Not totally happy to Speedy this article. It seems to me that the original editor is seeking the opinion of more experienced editors and the article could be made non-spam (by removal of one link) and tidied up with help. Appreciate other views by editors - I do not cast any personal opinion to keep or delete. --VS talk 05:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - I can see encyclopaedic merit in this article. Xdenizen (talk) 06:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Give this article a chance, it's what the creater has asked for. Horse sales are often notable events in themselves, so an article encompassing the concept seems worthy of inclusion in an encylopedia. Mostlyharmless (talk) 07:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete. This is just a pile of original research, but if people honestly feel that it has encyclopedic merit and clean it up I could change my mind.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 08:26, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep (see below) I just fed 'horse sales' into google books and came up with 659 results - they're a unique selling environment doubtless awash with different norms and terminology, seems like a perfectly suitable encyclopedia topic. There's money in it which means there's interest in it which means there are secondary sources. 12 results from google news, including these two [1] [2] which hint at some of the topics which could fall under this article's remit. C'mon, if there's not a good article in there somewhere I'll eat my shoes. Someone another (talk) 10:47, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Plus it's not just a recent thing, in developed countries horses have shifted from a beast of burden to a species kept for riding, there's the question of horses' roles in less developed countries, how they're bought and sold and the values placed upon them. Those kind of sources will be locked away in books, journals and other sources which will take time to research. They're a very important aspect of agriculture and industry from ages past and account for millions of dollars/pounds/bottle caps worth of sales every year. I'm really struggling to see how sources aren't available for this when we have sourced articles about dog vs. misc animal fights (including monkeys!?) on the encyclopedia. Someone another (talk) 11:08, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Abstain Enthusiasm for what an article could be and the actual facts are two separate things as Uncle G has pointed out, the above posts do not reflect what I should and would like to bring to AFD discussions so kindly ignore them. Someone another (talk) 15:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - in its current state, the article is an advice page (and so would violate WP:NOT#HOWTO, rather than an encyclopaedic article about a specific subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oli Filth (talk • contribs) 17:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep It has merit... but it could stand a lot of improvement, but doesn't need to be deleted. Give it some time to improve. --Charitwo talk 18:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep in order to allow time for improvement. --AndrewHowse (talk) 19:07, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Counting Google hits isn't research. Actually reading the things that Google comes up with is research. Doing so in this case reveals the problem. Most of the things that Someone another's search is finding are talking about horse sales, i.e. the transactions where horses are sold, as occurs both privately and at livestock markets.

    In contrast, a "Horse Sale" as this article is envisaging it, is some sort of general umbrella concept being inferred to cover all of the livestock and horse markets, rodeos, and meets that happen to have "Horse Sale" in their titles, such as the Miles City Bucking Horse Sale. The article doesn't even discuss that concept in any great depth. But that's because it's really a platform for the external link.

    We could have an article on the buying and selling of horses, i.e. horse trading. But this isn't it, and it isn't even the start of such an article. We could have an article on livestock markets. There are enough of them around the world. But this isn't a start to that, either. This, despite the disclaimer, is an advertisement masquerading as an article, with several external links to some company called "GuessStables", that was created by an editor named GuessStables (talk · contribs). Most of this article as it currently stands is in fact covering territory that we already have properly covered, without the narrow focus on one company and the horses that it breeds and sells, in horse breeding.

    The editors above say "give the article a chance". I say let's not keep blatant advertising. We already have an article on horse breeding. We can write about livestock markets, horse markets, horse dealers, horse traders, and the horse trade at our leisure. But we don't need any of this content in order to do so, and we shouldn't be keeping an advertisement around while we wait for the redlinks to be recoloured. Delete. Uncle G (talk) 20:12, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment from Original Author: 01/06/08 (UTC) 2:06:00am (CST/CDT)
    • - I am the orignal author, and I had the fore-thought that this debate would commence due to the mixture of Commerical and 'pure' Informational content disposed in this entry. I appreciate the 'general' tone that with some work the article has merit for inclusion. That is the point I tried to get across. I simply did not wish to waste a large amount of time and effort creating a very large entry if it was going to be ultimately deleted; I'm sure you can understand. --- Furthermore, with this topic Commercial content and Research of informational topics will have to be married. There are numerous other wiki articles that are compromised of both. Even some that are purely Commercial (although the company written about is at the mercy of those who browse and contribute or take away from the content on that page) -- Which makes the whole process fair.

-- I think the topic is necessary and would only add to the already enormous volume Wikipedia encompasses. I, being the original author, am simply one person, with one approach at adding information. These articles take a life of their own from others in the 'field(s)' at hand. It would morph, given the chance, into something completely different than even I can imagine at the moment.

-- No, this is not an attempt to get 'www.GuessStables.com' free advertisement. It is listed other places, and Wikipedia isn't necessary, nor would it be the barometer for the companies Success or Failure, given the factors.

--I propose the article is not 'marked for speedy deletion' as I can then continue adding to the content without being worried of impending deletion. I also full well intend on taking hints/tips and advice from everyone who cares to contribute to make the entry worthy, and a community effort.

  • I will check back soon to see what comments have aspired, but even with the tone (somewhat in the favor of giving it a chance overall) it is marked for 'speedy deletion'. Hopefully we can change that so it will have a fighting chance. Thank you in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GuessStables (talk • contribs)
  • Keep Unconventionally written but not spam--has the makings of a reasonable article. DGG (talk) 01:09, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - cleanup and move to Horse sales. Bearian (talk) 15:25, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Still Marked for Deletion? - I am antsy to proceed with the article and take heed the suggestions made to complete it for a reasonable entry in the Wikipedia, that can be tweaked, and added to buy others as need be. (How the process works I gather) -- However, as I've mentioned before I do not wish to pursue the endeavor on an article that is currently marked for deletion. Can I get an affirmation of a yay or nay to continue and not be deleted, ... say if I follow the following 'guidelines' relating to the article? Again, I appreciate all of your gracious feedback.

GuessStables (talk) 18:50, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment GuessStables you are entitled to proceed with the article whilst it is up for discussion as to whether it should be deleted. Changes to the article may in fact sway those suggesting delete. If I can be bold - you should not sit on your hands but start your process of tweaking now as it appears from my perspective that the article is likely to be kept. However as the admin who moved this from a speedy delete to AfD I will await another admin to close the discussion. --VS talk 20:31, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. As Uncle G notes, there's a place for an article on the phenomenon of horse sales, or of livestock trade in general. In fact, there's a surprising lack of articles on these topics. However, this isn't a useful start for such an article. An article on any of these topics would have to start with some serious research on at least one of several things:
    • Historical: What is the historical background of horse sales? What are the oldest ones known? How have they changed over time?
    • Contemporary: What are some current examples of horse sales? Where do they tend to occur? What different kinds are there? Who attends them? What animals are sold?
    • Cultural: How do horse sales differ in various countries? Do they have special significance to any religious or cultural groups? Does anyone object to their existence - if so, who and why?
    The current article answers none of these questions. At best, it's a few basic directions to someone who's interested in buying a Tennessee Walking Horse. Zetawoof(ζ) 00:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Needs renaming to Horse sales in line with Wikipedia house style. -- Mattinbgn\talk 04:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Author - I will print this page and take everything into consideration . The article suggestion isn't deleted "yet". You make a good point that it "At best it's a few basic directions to someone who's interested in buying a Tennessee Walking Horse." -- That is exactly what it is. That is a side business I am involved in, so I have first hand experience in such. To broaden this topic would require the work of others in their respective specialized fields, Thoroughbreds, Palmino's, etc etc. -- There are several ways to go I suppose. Find another article on Horse Sales and add in a description under a heading of 'Tennessee Walking Horses' that links into detail a page about how to purchase such a specific horse, what to look for, and so forth.
  • Sort of the purpose of this article. In my opinion articles should be kept to a minimum where people don't have to scroll down 20 pages of content, but moreso can click and shoot to what area they are interested in. However, there is no "Horse Sales" entry (that I am aware of), so that would be hard to 'add to', if you get what I mean. -- Given this is an encyclopedia, I think every possible subject anyone can think of big or small belongs in it. It is all encompassing, the more information it possess's the more powerful it is. (As long as that information is accurate, clear and concise. It may not be the most interesting topic, but alot of encylopedic topics aren't. What is interesting to Joe, might be boring to Betty and so forth. -- Anyhow, given the current climate and somewhat 'disinterest' in the topic at hand, I am no longer going to *fight* for its non-deletion. Though I still remain of the opinion such information should exist in an encyclopedia, and deleting an attempt that is more of a 'sub-category' to a larger category that merely doesn't yet exist,.. Is counter productive. But be that as it may, I still love Wiki.

GuessStables (talk) 14:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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