Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Holy Family Catholic Parish and School

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Due to the ambiguity, any "merging" should be done from scratch. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:33, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Holy Family Catholic Parish and School[edit]

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This article was nominated by TonyTheTiger for WP:PROD in January 2012. His reason was, "Grade school with no evidence or assertion of meeting Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)." Danjel objected, saying that "per WP:OUTCOMES and general consensus at WP:WPSCH, this primary school should be merged/redirected to its locality or school authority, NOT deleted". I agree that WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES urges us to redirect the article to the relevant school district or locality, but that solution is not possible for this article because "Holy Family" is a name used by several Catholic parishes and schools. Edge3 (talk) 01:49, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete WP:N not established.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:13, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. In theory it could be merged into the diocese article, but there's hardly enough material here to do so. Majoreditor (talk) 15:41, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:27, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:27, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge We're not talking about a disambiguation, which as you say is not appropriate because there are many "Holy Family"s, what we're talking about is an redirect to another article which ideally should include the same information. In this case, the target should be the Diocese of Joliet. That there isn't much said there in regards to primary schools (including this one) suggests that there should be so that readers looking for some information find something. Merge is the appropriate solution. ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 06:49, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A merger would not be appropriate because there are many parishes named "Holy Family". A quick Google search reveals that they are in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, Concord, Massachusetts, Seattle, and many other places. It would not be appropriate to redirect this article to Diocese of Joliet because it would also be equally valid to redirect to another diocese with a parish named "Holy Family". Edge3 (talk) 06:57, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How is that particular problem solved by deleting this article, then? It requires a more creative solution than simple deletion, perhaps a disambiguation which then takes people through to the diocese/school region articles. ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 07:20, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That implies creating a disambiguation page which lists every parish and every school named "Holy Family", including those which aren't noteworthy such as this one. There are dozens and dozens in the U.S. and who knows how many in other english-speaking countries. Not to stop there, but the same situation exists for "Immaculate Heart of Mary", "Sacred Heart of Jesus", <Adjective><Organ> of <Sactified Entity>, St. Paul, St. Peter, St. Mary, St. Gregory, St. John, Our Lady of <etc> ... you get the idea. Are you prepared to endorse the de-facto creation of a comprehensive parish and parochial school directory for all English-speaking countries? I just want to get a sense of how far this will go. Or - as an alternative - would you list only noteworthy schools and parishes on the disamb pages? Majoreditor (talk) 15:10, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This one might not be notable. In fact, every one might not be notable. However, the Dioceses, or whatever the relevant school systems, likely are because of their massive impact over several communities, and the collected notability of their parts. The alternative is that when someone searches for Holy Family Catholic Parish and School that they find nothing, or at least nothing relevant. How does that help us to build a comprehensive encyclopedia? ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 15:20, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is a difference between an encyclopedia and a comprehensive directory. Wikipedia is not a directory. It's OK if searches for non-notable entities don't produce results. We're building an encyclopedia, not the Yellow Pages :) Majoreditor (talk) 17:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've read it, thanks. There's a reason why I used comprehensive encyclopedia rather than comprehensive directory. I am not talking about a directory. Disambiguation and directories are radically different things, but I get that you're trying a silly argumentative trick.

If we were to talk about schools on a regional level, then you'd be able to talk about initiatives that span several schools. For example, one of the secondary schools for which I work has a "network" of schools in which most of the feeder primary schools for the high school are involved. In that network, there are a range of educational initiatives, some of which are a bit esoteric, but others such as music ensembles, and academic opportunities for gifted students regularly get news coverage. But how could you talk about such initiatives in the absence of mentioning the primary schools?

Thus, this school, like other schools of the same name, should be redirected to their regional structures. If there are many schools of the same name, as is probably the case in this instance, then an effort should be made to disambiguate between them should be made. After all, we do not delete John Smith (the disambiguation page) nor any of the individual John Smiths included on that page, just because there happen to be many John Smiths. You'll note that a few of those John Smiths are redlinks or redirects. ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 17:46, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

By that same logic we should have redirects and disambiguations for every non-notable) soldier who was a member of a notable platoon or brigrade. Consensus is pretty clear on this: if the entity is not notable then it doesn't need to be redirected or need to be mentioned on a disamb page. Please don't try to create a redirect or disamb for every non-notable school. Majoreditor (talk) 20:16, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete (or maybe Merge infobox into prose somewhere) and Redirect title to Holy family (disambiguation). No evidence of WP:ORG, but maybe details of the school could be mentioned in another article. Redirect because there are other churches and schools (and combinations) with that name. --Closeapple (talk) 17:55, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: per Tony p b p 17:50, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.