Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hoist with his own petard

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Enigma^msg 19:31, 29 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hoist with his own petard[edit]

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Dictionary definition leavened with some duplicate stuff taken from Petard. E Eng 22:49, 22 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The article is more than simply a "dictionary definition", it provides the history and etymology of the term in an encyclopedic fashion. -- Tavix ^(talk) 04:43, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't give history and etymology, it gives etymology and a usage example – which is what dictionaries do – plus a description of what a petard is, which is what the article Petard is for. E Eng 04:53, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Shakespeare isn't historical? -- Tavix ^(talk) 00:51, 25 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If only there were some phrase to describe this exchange... ~ Amory (u • t • c) 22:09, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. TMG^talk 06:31, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. TMG^talk 06:31, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. TMG^talk 06:31, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment this seems like a situation where a soft-redirect to Wiktionary would be appropriate. I don't see anything more than the dictdef here. power~enwiki (π, ν) 00:16, 24 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. There is an entry for this in Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (Fifth Edition, Cassell, February 1959, pp 492, 493 & 701) that gives examples of inventors who have been "hoist with their own petard". That is an encyclopedic list. I suspect you could find examples of people literally suffering this particular fate, because use of the petard was dangerous. This article is already more than a definition (eg literary criticism of Shakespeare's puns), and we can expand it further. In any event, deletion would violate ATD, PRESERVE and R, because we could redirect and merge to the article on petard. James500 (talk) 06:40, 24 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with merge/redirect to Petard. E Eng 06:57, 24 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This is not a dictionary entry or suitable pointer to Wiktionary, but rather a history and discussion of an extremely well-known phrase from English literature, with citations. --MCB (talk) 00:23, 25 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Merge to Petard seems like a bad choice. That article is about munitions; this one is about an idiom. Combining them because the contain they same word is textbook WP:NOTDICT. I think an argument can be made to keep per WP:WORDISSUBJECT, ~~but given this article's current state (it cites only dictionaries, mainly definitions of its component words) I wouldn't object strongly to a soft redirect, as power~enwiki suggests.~~ Cnilep (talk) 02:22, 25 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. --Xover (talk) 19:18, 25 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- That is quite the WP:HEY-style edit, and it's been expanded enough for DYK... Chris857 (talk) 20:13, 25 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The article has been significantly improved since it was nominated. /Julle (talk) 10:03, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Normally I would have agreed with the nominator. However, Hamlet is a very long play and there is room for articles on specific aspects of that play. Someone has made a lot of effort to bring this article up to standard, and it is now fit for inclusion. Deb (talk) 12:42, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep 50 points to Xover for a massive rewrite. The topic is notable (although admittedly hard to find sources for, given its usage) and that should be clear as day now. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 22:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:HEY and WP:BEFORE. Also known as hoist on his own petard, this has been for centuries a notable phrase or idiom. Unline words, phrases often deserve encyclopedia articles. Bearian (talk) 14:49, 29 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.