Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hill 400, Bergstein

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Battle of Hürtgen Forest. History is under the redirect if someone wants to merge. Star Mississippi 01:52, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hill 400, Bergstein[edit]

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I am not sure if this mess is rescuable (WP:TNT). The article, effectively unreferenced, is structured as about a hill that doesn't appear to meet WP:Notability (places). Possibly the battle for Hill 400 could be notable, sample source, although even here I am unsure about the name, as neither the above-red lined title, nor battle of Hill 400, nor battle of Bergstein seem to generate much hits (BEFORE was done in GS and GB). In either case, the article isn't about the battle, anyway (it has an unreferenced newspaper quote about it, and then 'in popular culture' list of trivia seems to be mainly related to said battle). Ugh. A mess, as I said. Even if it is rewritten into a battle article, it will pretty much be a totally new article that will require moving. PS. To muddy the waters, the German wiki article about the hill is relatively long, but very poorly referenced, so it's hard to say that it shows we can "do better", as WP:OR issues arise... Oh, and it also further showcases the mess that our article is, as the German name, Burgberg , means castle hill or city hill, and the name Hill 400 is an unoffocial Allied WWII name given to this location and not used by the locals, past or present, obviously. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 18:46, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 18:46, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 18:46, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment it looks like the battle might be notable, but the actual hill is not. So far I've found some good refs on the battle (National Review, this recent book] by Bob Drury), but I'm still trying to discern whether draftifying and renaming or flat out deleting per WP:TNT and then working on an article on the battle is the best option. GPL93 (talk) 21:55, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Battle of Hürtgen Forest as the fighting at Hill 400 was all part of that battle. Mztourist (talk) 08:40, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:50, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There's something odd about this one. Normally medieval castles at least have some reference someplace online, but the one referred to in this article doesn't seem to, other than in references that seem linked back to this article. There's a lot of mirror clutter radiating out from this article onto the web that I can't really get past. Overall, since the fighting was part of a notable battle, I think a redirect as noted above, and a merge of anything worth saving, is the best route to go. Tony Fox (arf!) 20:06, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.