Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heartstone (artifact)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:50, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Heartstone (artifact)[edit]

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A relic from the days when IPs could create pages, this is a BURO nom as apparently previous PRODs have been removed and so someone wants to go through the official process because it is the official process. Subject fails WP:GNG, and has since its creation. A search reveals no sources about Heartstones- artifacts or not- in fiction, although it is an extremely common name for fantasy novels. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:36, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There are a number of works on dragons in literature. See the the WorldCat subject listing. Have you made any attempt ourself to find any of them and see if they cover this., or are you relying on the Googles? I've read Petty's book, & I think it's covered, but it would be a while for me to find it again. DGG ( talk ) 00:45, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

i did searches for heartstone in fiction, heartstone in novels, heartstone in fantasy, heartstone in videogames, and heartstone in the Clute Encyclopedia of Fantasy. I did not look for heartstone and dragon as in all of my fiction and video gaming, i could not think of one instance where the heartstone actually had anything to do with a dragon and so it seemed needlessly limiting the scope of potential hits. but a search now has resulted in the same, nothing about heartstone and dragons. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 01:13, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Vision of Escaflowne is one work I can think of that features heartstones in relation to dragons. The heartstones in that show are basically just like what is described in the article. That doesn't help in any way to show notability, but I just wanted to point out that they are used in that way in some fictional works. Calathan (talk) 01:35, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - As I mentioned on TheRedPenOfDoom's talk page, the article describes this as a real belief from the Middle Ages. I think the best chance of finding sources for this would come from works on medieval beliefs (such as belief in wizards and alchemy), rather than from works discussing tropes in modern fantasy fiction. I'm not personally planning to look for sources (I don't have the time, and wouldn't know where to start), and think this should be deleted if no good sources are found. Calathan (talk) 01:35, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. LadyofShalott 01:54, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note I dropped a note at User talk:Drmies#Blatant canvassing. LadyofShalott 01:54, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. LadyofShalott 01:59, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Magic-related deletion discussions. LadyofShalott 02:04, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I find no evidence of medieval or alchemical lore concerning heartstones, although I note modern usage for interior rock or for a heart-shaped stone, and one self-help book developing that concept. That leaves the fantasy and gaming uses, and for those I found only primary sources (including a game manual in MS Word that came closest to the article content, and some bad Anglo-Saxon). Yngvadottir (talk) 02:54, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Unless someone can come up with something I haven't, I don't think this meets the notability requirement. I've searched through google, google books, and JSTOR using both "Heartstone" and "heart stone" and also checking for works that contained both heartstone and wizard, or heartstone and dragon. I found nothing that supported this. Ryan Vesey 03:04, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Commnet - I pulled out my reprint of The Curious Lore of Precious Stones by George Frederick Kunz and can find no reference in it to either heartstones or dragons. LadyofShalott 03:11, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I can't find anything in critical works about fantasy that covers the concept either, and per the article itself there's no claim the usage is anything other than fictional. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:51, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Dragons have frequently been thought to bear magical or medicinal stones in their heads (see here, for instance), but I can find no reference to these "heartstones" in any ancient or medieval authors. Seems to be a nonnotable creation in modern fantasy. Deor (talk) 13:37, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This is probably a Fantasy tropes and conventions related to Medievalism. Since there is no evidence it appears in anything but two minor works, The Vision of Escaflowne and Skeleton Warriors. If commonality can be shown across a lot of works including some more central it would be a redirect, perhaps justifying one or two sentences as a trope. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 16:15, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to be a common element in fantasy. It appears in the title of Dungeons and Dragons games from the 1980s. Did it exist before then? Candleabracadabra (talk) 18:18, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This 1978 pulp fiction book has a quest for a heartstone as its main plot with a dragon-like creature on the cover.[1]"A changeling and her comrades seek the legendary heartstone." I am having trouble finding a lot which makes me think it's not that popular outside a few works. Nothing before 1978 I can find for the exact term, but as Deor points out the concept is very old, medieval. The problem is nobody has written about it, only mentions and uses. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 23:14, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

while fairly commonly appearing, there is no commonality to any of the many appearances other than the name and the fact that there is something like a stone associated with something like a heart and it may have some type of mystical properties except when it doesnt. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 23:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.