Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Haifa Bitar

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. All keep rationales seem to be based in policy, with consensus having moved more towards keep based on the edits/sources by one editor. (non-admin closure) —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 21:14, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Haifa Bitar[edit]

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It's depressing when a creating editor moves a Draft to mainspace when not ready. Because it's a disputed draftification it has to come to AfD, even if the realistic outcome is to draftify. If I draftified it that would be move warring and help no-one. Bitar's claim to notability is the Abu Al-Qasem Al-Shabi Prize, which is only verified in a primary source. It appears to be a notable prize. Unless improved during the AfD I suggest the outcome be to draftify since deletion itself appears inappropriate. I may, of course, be mistaken about the Abu Al-Qasem Al-Shabi Prize and its signficance. If I am please educate us all by opting to delete. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 19:21, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Women, Medicine, and Syria. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:30, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
~~Weak~~ keep I had worked on this article when it was a draft, and found mentions that indicated some WP:BASIC and possible WP:AUTHOR notability, and just added a few more sources from the WP Library that add further support for WP:BASIC notability as an author, including another award and discussion in a scholarly journal. There are additional mentions available on ProQuest that help me lean towards a weak keep instead of draftify, including mention of her participation in the 2009 Emirates Literary Festival (e.g. "Book Lovers Snap up Tickets of Emirates Literary Festival" (McClatchy, 2009)), a quote from her from the Syria Times reprinted in the Middle East News Online article "Hopes for the new millennium" (2001), and an abstract available for a 2009 Gulf News article "Writing for women more than a luxury", about "a discussion with female authors Mansoura Ez Eldin, Haifa Bitar and Rajaa Al Sanea on whether literary works produced by Arab women share distinctive characteristics and features." Beccaynr (talk) 20:54, 27 April 2022 (UTC) - !vote updated, per comment below Beccaynr (talk) 16:55, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The Abu Al-Qasem Al-Shabi Prize is notable though the sourcing overall seems a bit of a stretch. I agree with Beccanyr’s “weak keep” here. Mccapra (talk) 21:21, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I don't see anything in the sources cited which would establish GNG notability. And I find it problematic to attribute such eminence to a literary prize — which in itself isn't notable enough to have an article (that I can find, at least) — as to somehow satisfy NAUTHOR notability, when NAUTHOR doesn't actually list literary awards as a criterion. I guess I could at a push also live with draftifying, but all I can say in that case is, if this comes up for AfC review I will not be accepting it as it currently stands. --DoubleGrazing (talk) 04:56, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@DoubleGrazing I am only basing any suggestion in the nomination that the prize is notable on the fact that other RS sources report it being presented to another author by a senior national government person. This it has the appearance of being a notable prize, but reality may differ.

In its current state I would also decline this as a draft, but my hope in the nomination suggestion of drafification was that it would be improved better there rather than under the deadline pressure of AfD 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 07:51, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Timtrent — sorry if I gave the impression I was taking a swipe at you (or anyone else) with my comments RE the prize; that was certainly not my intention. I just felt that basing this person's notability on an award of unproven notability, while NAUTHOR is silent on awards to begin with, was a bridge too far. As for my !vote, I realise it may seem harsh, but IMO the creating editor has, by moving this to the main space when it wasn't ready, made it (entirely gratuitously) fair game. DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:08, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@DoubleGrazing I never took it as a swipe. What I have tried to do is to make an even handed nomination based on all I knew of the prize, admittedly not much! I could not draftify it because doing so again would be move warring, so it is right that the wider community decides at AfD 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:14, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@DoubleGrazing, I refer to WP:BASIC in my !vote and refer to the awards because I view awards as a form of secondary commentary about the subject, that while not always in-depth, may not be trivial, and therefore can fit within the WP:BASIC allowance for how multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability. I am more concerned about the limited sources I have found about the award than the lack of a specific Wikipedia article - we do appear to have an article about the poet for whom the award is named, which also suggests we may need to use multiple alternative spellings and translations from non-English sources to find further information about his legacy, including the award, which could then help support WP:ANYBIO#1 and the significant critical attention prong of WP:AUTHOR#4(c). From my view, based on what we currently have available, the combination of sources helps support her WP:BASIC notability, including the discussion of her work in two International Journal of Middle East Studies articles that were added during this AfD discussion, as well as a review in Banipal that was already in the article, along with mentions, e.g. in The New Yorker in 2009 describing her as "the outspoken Syrian novelist Haifa Bitar" and her being described as one of the "Prominent Arabic writers present at the Emirates Airline International Festival" by Gulf News in 2009. Beccaynr (talk) 17:44, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I've added to the article, some stylistic/formatting edits, some additional information about the books, most relevant for this AfD, I've found multiple pieces of commentary on her work via Google Books, including one in depth discussion about how she is often criticized for discussing the regionally taboo topics of women's sexuality. Everything I added was from English language sources, despite her writing mostly appearing to be in Arabic, so she's having influence far from home. The article wasn't in good shape, I expected to ~vote drafify when first saw this one, but with the new edits, I think it is now in sufficiently good shape to remain up, notwithstanding that further refinements would be good and I'm sure there's more information out there, especially for anyone who can search in Arabic. CT55555 (talk) 11:29, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Article looks in fine shape now, thanks to CT55555. pburka (talk) 14:26, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per Pburka. Fade258 (talk) 15:43, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I updated my !vote to remove "weak" after expanding the article with information from sources added by CT55555 and another source from GScholar that analyzes several of her works. Per WP:AUTHOR#4, there appears to be significant critical attention of her works based on these sources and the awards, and sources identified in this discussion can be added to further support WP:BASIC notability. Beccaynr (talk) 16:55, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.