Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gaia series

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep consensus indicates (apparently correctly) that original research concerns are incorrect. Cheers, Wily D 14:37, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gaia series[edit]

The article itself acknowledges it: these games do not officially form a series. Consequently, the article is just a collection of original research, assumptions, and personal extrapolation. A discussion has taken place on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Square Enix#Soul Blazer series but it didn't help fix the article, as no reliable sources has ever been found to establish the notability and veracity of this article. Kariteh 07:35, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Please also vote on the deletion page of the corresponding template. Kariteh 07:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Game-related-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 17:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - reliable sources for this being considered a series by fans include the following three professional reviews: [1] [2] [3]. As such, it is not original research to state that fans consider them to be a series. JulesH 17:42, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Yes the article admits it's not an offical series, but Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth. So while it may not be a true series, it IS verifiable through numerous reliable sources that fans and gaming professionals alike refer to these games as a series. If there were no reliable sources, I'd be quite happy to say delete, but there are, so I won't. DarkSaber2k 10:36, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Only the first review is truly "professional". The other two sites are fan sites, which might be good quality, but which could still be unreliable on a few stuff. Besides, are you sure you want to totally keep the article as such? The term "Gaia series" is mentioned nowhere on the three sites posted. Kariteh 11:46, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Terranigma is also the thrid installment of the Soul Blazer series. Taken from the second source which I chose at random from the 3. That review looks neither a fan page, nor unreliable. The first source quite clearly refers to the games as a series, and the third also appears to be a reliable source and refers to the 'series'. DarkSaber2k 11:50, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Why are you quoting this sentence for? I repeat myself: the term "Gaia series" is not used. Also, the second site also states that Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma were called "Soul Blazer 2" and "Soul Blazer 3" in Japan, something which is utterly wrong. Since only one website (the first link) seems to mention the existence of this series in a reliable way, it remains the point of view of that website and not a common, widespread verifiable fact. Moreover, the third site doesn't actually name what games are part of that series, while the second site does not mention Granstream Saga. All this is really shoddy. Kariteh 11:59, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Only the first review is truly "professional". The other two sites are fan sites, which might be good quality, but which could still be unreliable on a few stuff. On what are you basing this assertion? I determined by examing production details for all three sites that they were produced comercially and had independent editorial and writing teams. the second site also states that Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma were called "Soul Blazer 2" and "Soul Blazer 3" in Japan, something which is utterly wrong It doesn't state these: it says they were retitled. This may have occurred during production, prior to release, and unless you happen to be an employee of either of the companies involved in their production, it is unlikely you would know whether or not that is true. Or the site may be wrong. Reliable sources do sometimes make mistakes, and it doesn't mean we must reject everything they publish: this article does not rely on this specific fact, so it is neither here nor there. the term "Gaia series" is not used True enough. So rename the article "Soul Blazer series" instead of deleting it. the second site does not mention Granstream Saga I'm not sure I see the relevance. JulesH 16:44, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - The first site is professional in that it's a subdivision of GameSpy and written by recognized people who usually write for "big" sites like IGN (Kurt Kulata, etc.). The second site is a fan site in that it's a volunteer site. It's written in their "Join Staff" page; everybody can join, and the difference between their type of sites and professional sites or magazines is openly acknowledged. As for the third site, could you give the link to where these production details are described? I couldn't find any link to a Staff or About page.
    - As for the retitling thing, I think you are looking into it too much. The sentence clearly implies that Enix changed the name from "Soul Blazer 2" to "Illusion of Gaia" and "Soul Blazer 3" to "Terranigma" when they were released in the United States. This is what immediately comes to mind when reading the sentence, and this is further supported by the comparison that they make with Final Fantasy II and III on the SNES (called "Final Fantasy IV" and "VI" in Japan). To imagine that they wanted to say something else is kind of difficult with the context and that example. The first sentence of the review even seems to imply that Terranigma was released in America, even though it wasn't (it was only released in Japan and Europe/Australia). Either that, or they make some random, unrelated comment about it having been released in Japan and Europe before Enix of America closed down... Either way, all things considered in addition to the quite noticeable amount of typos in that review, show that this site is not very pertinent in establishing the verifiability of this Gaia/Soul Blazer series.
    - The relevance of Granstream Saga is in the definition of that Gaia/Soul Blazer series. If sites don't have a common definition of what games are part of that series, it shows that the "series" isn't particularly verifiable, and that it's in the end assumptions and personal extrapolations. Kariteh 17:23, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - During Beta, Illusion of Gaia was referred to as Soul Blazer: Illusion of Gaia, and Terranigma was referred to as Illusion of Gaia 2 inside the game. If Illusion of Gaia is the indirect sequel to Soul Blazer, and Terranigma is the "sequel" to Illusion of Gaia, that's enough connection, isn't it? The article's name should probably be the Soul Blazer series, though. SouperAwesome 10:44, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Do you have reliable sources to establish that this is really how they were referred to? And what do you do about Granstream Saga? Kariteh 11:05, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - I've added The Granstream Saga in the template as "Related", since it's not "officially" connected to the others, despite all the similarities. I tried to take a photo of my TV showing the screen where Terranigma is called "Illusion of Gaia 2" but it didn't turn out, but I'll try again later if you'd like. SouperAwesome 10:05, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.