Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Factor (Scotland)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. No support for deletion. (non-admin closure) Atlantic306 (talk) 19:49, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Factor (Scotland)[edit]
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This article appears to be bordering on a dictionary definition of the term that seems to be synonymous with property manager. It seem like this should best be a redirect to property manager and/or merged with Property management. Toddst1 (talk) 19:07, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 19:33, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Management-related deletion discussions. Toddst1 (talk) 19:56, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
- Speedy Keep The nomination does not advocate deletion. An act was passed in 2011 -- the Property Factors (Scotland) Act 2011 and there's plenty of specific coverage of that out there. Andrew D. (talk) 20:40, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
- Keep The Scottish factor is integral to the history of the Highland clearances and modern estate management in Scotland. There is ample material that can be put in the article, including notable factors (mostly, unfortunately, notorious characters) an explanation of the duties carried out and the type of person who was employed in this work. There are potential sources such as "Turmoil among the crofters:Evander McIver and the ‘Highland Question’, 1873–1903" by Annie Tindley and Eric Richards in The Agricultural History Review - there are many other mentions of the role in more accessible works and there is at least one biography of a Highland factor (Richards, Eric (1999). Patrick Sellar and the Highland Clearances: Homicide, Eviction and the Price of Progress. Edinburgh: Polygon. ISBN 1 902930 13 4). Whilst the article is clearly deficient as it stands, the solution is to put some better material in it.
ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 21:24, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. The term factor is not synonymous with property manager, as a property manager is not necessarily legally recognised (whereas a factor is under the laws of Scotland) and does not necessarily have the same legal powers and duties as a factor in Scotland (because Scots law does not apply to the rest of the world, and is indeed a unique cross between common and civil law that has generally not been exported overseas). The topic of factors in Scotland in any event satisfies GNG and is independently notable. There is a large body of literature about factors in Scotland and Scots law (as opposed to the rest of the world). See for example Bell's Commentaries amongst many others. In other words, even if, for the sake of argument, a factor was a property manager in Scotland (which is not admitted), WP:SPINOUT would apply. (This is normally true of any topic that consists of broad topic X in country Y). This page is capable of being expanded beyond a definition. Possibly a title like "Factors in Scots law" or "Factors in Scotland" might be better. We also see this described as "factoring" or a "contract of factory". James500 (talk) 22:53, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
- Third-party property managers in the US require state licensure in most states, so to say they're not legally recognized is uninformed. I'm not saying that factors aren't passing GNG, rather, they seem to fit the description of a third-party property manager with all the fiduciary obligations of a factor. What is missing? Toddst1 (talk) 03:28, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
- "What is missing?" Looking at the historical aspect, the Highland Factor, as I have tried to explain above, is very much tied up with the management of estates during the huge social disruption of the clearances, and then during the period of massive emigration from that region that extended into the 20th century. As such, among other things, they were involved in a massive piece of social engineering (often devising entire improvement schemes for landlords), they were closely involved in mitigating the Highland potato famine (why was this nothing like as severe as in Ireland?). They were people who had an enormous amount of power over tenants, often over very large tracts of land. Elsewhere in Wikipedia, various articles need a link into something that covers (perhaps in part) the historic role of the Highland factor. An article on the Scottish factor seems to make sense, rather than one just focused on the historical aspect, because one would not want the reader to believe that this role has disappeared. The current property manager article does not currently deal with the subject and, in my opinion, would not read well if it were to cover it adequately, as there would be a confusing mix of different subjects.
ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 11:55, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
- "What is missing?" Looking at the historical aspect, the Highland Factor, as I have tried to explain above, is very much tied up with the management of estates during the huge social disruption of the clearances, and then during the period of massive emigration from that region that extended into the 20th century. As such, among other things, they were involved in a massive piece of social engineering (often devising entire improvement schemes for landlords), they were closely involved in mitigating the Highland potato famine (why was this nothing like as severe as in Ireland?). They were people who had an enormous amount of power over tenants, often over very large tracts of land. Elsewhere in Wikipedia, various articles need a link into something that covers (perhaps in part) the historic role of the Highland factor. An article on the Scottish factor seems to make sense, rather than one just focused on the historical aspect, because one would not want the reader to believe that this role has disappeared. The current property manager article does not currently deal with the subject and, in my opinion, would not read well if it were to cover it adequately, as there would be a confusing mix of different subjects.
- Third-party property managers in the US require state licensure in most states, so to say they're not legally recognized is uninformed. I'm not saying that factors aren't passing GNG, rather, they seem to fit the description of a third-party property manager with all the fiduciary obligations of a factor. What is missing? Toddst1 (talk) 03:28, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
- Keep - Factor is a key term in Scotland, both historically and today (as noted it is spelled out in legislation). I think the article could be improved to cover historical usage (eg in the Highland Clearances as outlined above, but also the office of burgh or city factor who was in charge of council housing might be mentioned). Dunarc (talk) 19:48, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. A very significant term in Scottish history and far more can be written about it than a simple dicdef. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:39, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.