Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FK Dobrinja

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Although numerically there is more support to keep, the delete opinions are more in line with policy. WP:FOOTYN, which applies to teams as opposed to WP:FOOTY, is an essay and can not supercede WP:GNG. J04n(talk page) 15:28, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

FK Dobrinja[edit]

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Author contest PROD without any reason, but still fail WP:FOOTYN Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 09:52, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 09:53, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 09:53, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bosnia and Herzegovina-related deletion discussions. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 09:53, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 10:13, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - no evidence of notability. Giant Snowman 10:06, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Yugoslavia-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 12:37, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It plays in the Kantonalna liga Sarajevo - B grupa as per this.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:46, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Judging from the lack of sources currently found, the club fails the general notability guideline as well as any presumption of notability per the essay Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Notability. Sam Sailor 10:45, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The club played in 1999-2000 Bosnian cup. According tro your own rules this should be enough to meet notability. Linhart (talk) 16:26, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes WP:FOOTYN has played in the 1999–2000 Bosnia and Herzegovina Football Cup a national cup.Was checking this good work by Linhart.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:15, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mz7 (talk) 01:59, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Passes WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTY as a Google search of Serbo-Croatian language sources brings up local secondary sources. SportingFlyer talk 03:22, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:NFOOTY is part of WP:ATHLETE and is irrelevant here as it specifically says "It is not intended that this guideline should apply to sports clubs and teams". And we are not anywhere near a GNG pass, cf. the source assessment below. Sam Sailor 14:43, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - WP:FOOTYN then. My mistake. SportingFlyer talk 17:07, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment What kind of stupid rule is All teams that have played in the national cup are assumed to meet WP:N criteria. (from WP:FOOTYN)? According to Bosnia and Herzegovina Football Cup, clubs from entire country are competing in the Cup, and as far as I know similar rule existed for the Yugoslav Cup – every club gets a chance, but bottom-league clubs only provide a small seed into late rounds, when higher-ranking leagues join in. Yeah, they made it to the round of 32 once, but that does not come across as a particularly notable achievement. I have no opinion whether they satisfy GNG otherwise, thus no !vote for me. FWIW, their stadium was featured at [1] incidentally just 5 days ago, but that's more or less just run-of-the mill local coverage. No such user (talk) 11:55, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes WP:FOOTYN per the excellent research above. Smartyllama (talk) 18:34, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I have tried to find sources on this little neighborhood club with 150 members, and I have yet to find 1 single, reliable source that speaks about the club in any detail. The club is currently scraping the bottom as no. 8 and last in the local League of Sarajevo Canton (Group B) that is down on the fourth level of Bosnia and Herzegovinan football.

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table:
"Eldin Balihodžić - Stoper". FK DOBRINJA (in Bosnian). Retrieved 17 May 2018.	Club website	Propably		✘ No
"FK DOBRINJA". FK Dobrinja (in Bosnian). 11 August 2017. Archived from the original on 11 August 2017. Retrieved 17 May 2018.	Club website	Propably		✘ No
fsks.ba (15 May 2018). "Kantonalna liga Sarajevo - B grupa". FSKS (in Bosnian). Archived from the original on 15 May 2018. Retrieved 17 May 2018.	Football Ass. of Canton Sarajevo	Presumably	Pure statistics	✘ No
"Želimir Vidović Keli je živio za svoje Sarajevo". Klix.ba (in Bosnian). 17 May 2012. Archived from the original on 20 May 2012. Retrieved 17 May 2018.	Bylined article, internet portal	Presumably, yes	Trivial mention, article is about Želimir Vidović, not the club	✘ No
"Udruženje Bordo prijatelji 1946: Gradsko vijeće nije prihvatilo naš prijedlog". Sport Centar (in Bosnian). 17 May 2018. Archived from the original on 17 May 2018. Retrieved 17 May 2018.		Presumably, yes	Trivial mention	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

WP:FOOTYN is repeatedly invoked as a "keep" argument here based on the team's supposed participation in 1 single match almost 20 years ago in the 1999–2000 Bosnia and Herzegovina Football Cup. I say "supposed", because that fact is currently only supported by a reference to a user forum on SportsSport.ba.

But FOOTYN is a shortcut to the project-specific essay Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Notability. It has not been under community scrutiny, and is in no way a free pass to inclusion. It makes the assumption, that All teams that have played in the national cup (or the national level of the league structure in countries where no cup exists) are assumed to meet WP:N criteria. And passing WP:GNG does require verifiable evidence. I hope that sombody can find better sources. In which case I will gladly change my !vote. Sam Sailor 14:43, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

NB: according to hr:Nogometni kup Bosne i Hercegovine (and by careful reading of 1999–2000 Bosnia and Herzegovina Football Cup), at the time the country did not even have the unified cup and league; the three entities that constituted them each had a league and a cup on their own, and only Croat and Bosniak clubs (~half of the field) played the final rounds. FK Dobrinja only made it to the best 32 of the Bosniak part, which makes that achievement even smaller. No such user (talk) 15:00, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per above, after all. Run-of-the-mill low-league city neighborhood club, sources on par, fails GNG. No such user (talk) 20:20, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. When a club passes WP:FOOTYN after all, it's wisest to withdraw. gidonb (talk) 02:47, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's ridiculous. A WP:SNG, which is WP:FOOTYN, cannot override project-wide WP:GNG policy. Even if taken at face value, it says that the team is assumed to meet WP:N criteria, which has been demonstrated false by Sam Sailor and myself, the only ones who exercised due diligence to actually search for sources. No such user (talk) 14:02, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.