Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Enoch seminar

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was withdrawn by nominator. the wub "?!" 00:23, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Enoch seminar[edit]

Delete An academic gathering cannot become a separate encyclopedic article. If you make a separate article for each and every seminar around the world, then wikipeida will be a mess. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 08:52, 3 January 2008 (UTC)) Keep I am withdrawing my nomination as sources are given and sign of notability. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 13:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, source, and remove waffle - sources as indicated below show notability but the article is terribly tedious. Delete for non-Notability - fails WP:N. Springnuts (talk) 12:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC) Springnuts (talk) 09:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article shall not be deleted! The objections raised at the presence of an article on the Enoch Seminar in Wikipedia are obviously only based on some misunderstandings. The Enoch Seminar, founded in 2000 by Gabriele Boccaccini (University of Michigan), is not an occasional gathering of scholars but a permanent, well-established academic group supported by the Dept. of Near Eastern Studies of the University of Michagan and the Michigan Center for Early Christian Studies. The size and importance of the Enoch Seminar are comparable to the Jesus Seminar (to which Wikipedia has devoted a long article). Like in the case of the Jesus Seminar, this is a permanent academic institution, meant to last for many years to come. Among the about 200 members of the group are virtually all the most distinguished world specialists in the field of Second Temple Judaism, from Europe, America and Israel, including James Charlesworth, Daniel Boyarin, Lawrence Schiffman, John J. Collins, James C, VanderKam, Michael Stone, Paolo Sacchi, Hindy Najman, George Nickelsburg, Hanan Eshel, Martha Himmelfarb, Albert Baumgarten, Helge Kvanvig, Klaus Koch, Lester Grabbe, Robert Kraft, Michael Knibb, etc. etc.
The Enoch Seminar has already organized 5 international conferences and two graduate conferences and published 6 volumes (one by Brill, three by Eerdmans, one by Zamorani, and one by Morcelliana). This is not an occasional gathering of scholars, by an established and well-organized group, promoted and supported by the University of Michigan and the Michigan Center for Early Christian Studies, with a website, funds, and an ongoing program of biennial conferences. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.18.136.73 (talk) 15:10, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- And yet you don't cite a single source against which any of your claims can be verified. As such, the closing administrator has no reason to believe you. Sources! Sources! Sources! You'll notice that Jesus Seminar#References has quite a few. Uncle G (talk) 03:01, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You were perfectly right, but this can be easily provided. I checked and I saw that there is a vast bibliography supporting the claims of the article. I think I have now added the necessary references and external links to support the statements in the article, which were missing. It seemed to me that with these much-needed modifications, the article now meets the criteria of Wikipedia. The problem was the format of the article, not the contents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pibertal (talk • contribs) 16:09, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the article on the Enoch Seminar shall not be deleted. The Enoch Seminar is not just an ordinary scholarly seminar, but a very prominent school or movement of contemporary theological and biblical thought similar to such theological schools, like the Religionsgeschichtliche Schule or Wissenschaft des Judentums movement which already have their entries in the WiKi. So it is natural to include an entry on the Enoch Seminar too. About the question of lacking the sources/references to the Enoch Seminar, it should be said that a lot of references to the Enoch Seminar are circulating in the paper publications, monographs, articles in refereed journals, closed databases of academic publishing, because of the copyright issues, but some of them can be found on the web. See for example here: http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/dsd --Enochmetatron (talk) 02:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I remember reading an article by Thomas Kraus about the Enoch Seminar in the Review of Biblical Literature. http://www.bookreviews.org/bookdetail.asp?TitleId=4898 Thomas Kraus is not an attendee or member of the Enoch Seminar, and the Review of Biblical Literature has an established reputation as an academic, independent journal. In his article Kraus presents a history of the Enoch Seminary that confirms all the claims of the article posted on Wikipedia. The article should be cited as a conclusive piece of evidence of the notability of the Enoch Seminar, in addition to the many other references now cited in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gboccaccini (talk • contribs) 04:52, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly recomand to keep this entry. The Enoch Seminar had contributed significaly to the field of Second Temple period research. It allowed scholars from different countries and differnt background to meet and to discuss major topics in the study of Ancient Judaism and Early Christianity. I believe that already more than a dozen articles were written because of those seminars. Those meetings are important because they allow scholars from the United Staes to meet scholars from Europe and Israel, and to share ideas and insights and to get to know each other. I hope that in the future these seminars will continue to contribute to my field of reseach. Hanan Eshel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.48.201 (talk) 20:47, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Evil Spartan (talk) 00:01, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.