Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/English Ceramic Circle

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus due to limited participation; no prejudice against a renomination. (non-admin closure) RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 04:42, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

English Ceramic Circle[edit]

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English Ceramic Circle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Was deleted through prod, then restored through refund. However, can't find enough coverage to show it passes either WP:GNG or WP:ORGDEPTH. Onel5969 TT me 21:49, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

English Ceramics 1580–1830: A Commemorative Catalogue to celebrate the 50th Anniversary of the English Ceramic Circle 1927–1977. Seems to be published by Sotheby's. Rathfelder (talk) 10:10, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hi Rathfelder - yes I saw that. It's a catalogue put out by Sotheby's, but if you check out the info page here, you'll see that the major contributor was the organization itself. Onel5969 TT me 16:05, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment They seem to publish a journal(?) ECC Transactions, you have several pages of listings in GScholar. The digital archive is here: [1]. Not sure how notable that is, the ECC seems to be an historical research organization for tracing/documenting the history of porcelain in England. University of Cardiff has a description of the journal [2], as does the British Museum. The ECC presented what seems to be a rather substantive museum exhibit at a ceramics fair in 2017 [3]. I'm sensing they might just be notable if we can dig for sources. Oaktree b (talk) 04:19, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Their name also turns up as a publisher in a "reading list" if you will prepared by the Smithsonian, [4]; I count 3 publications by them with enough clout to be mentioned by the Smithsonian as potential sources. Does WP:AUTHOR make allowances for academic publishers? The ECC appears to be one of a select few regarded as subject matter experts. Oaktree b (talk) 04:30, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting question, Oaktree b - currently, it does not appear to extend to organizations or companies. Onel5969 TT me 10:33, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm leaning keep even though sources are hard to find. They seem to have cooperated with the Victoria & Albert museum, publishing information about that collection. I found a short article from the The Burlington Magazine, 1948, about the circle (jstor). It speaks highly of their Transactions publication. There is also a review of the catalog of their exhibition (English Pottery and Porcelain: The English Ceramic Circle Exhibition Catalogue 1948 W. B. Honey), also in The Burlington Magazine (jstor). Those probably only count as one source. That same magazine also has some reviews of articles or issues of the Transactions. I have the feeling that within a certain context this organization produced significant work, but I haven't found proof beyond that one magazine. Also I note that the few cites I found in Google Scholar beyond the transactions themselves (using "English Ceramic Circle" -site:englishceramiccircle.org.uk) has only 8 items. The Google Scholar results of the transactions themselves show some articles cited a few times. It's very hard to evaluation these niche topics. Lamona (talk) 21:19, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Two more mentions from the 1940s when the donated to exhibitions [5]. I feel like they are notable but can't find much to prove it. I'm frankly amazed a book hasn't been published about them. Oaktree b (talk) 01:10, 26 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 01:57, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this discussion and for your comments and careful research on the topic. The ECC is a respected research body for British ceramic history. It hosts international lectures on ceramics (both live and, these days, Zoom), and produces its Transactions annually, generally a 200-300 page academic publication, as well as occasional one-off research publications. The British Library lists several items in its online Catalogue but it does seem that the Transactions themselves are hard to find. I’ll raise this with the ECC as it could be a compliance issue.
I take your point about external sourcing and would hope this could be improved, but I would urge you to recognise the importance of the ECC – in my opinion, as an experienced contributor to WP, it is more than worthy of a short entry. Thanks again. JasperWare (talk) 08:23, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There doesn't seem to be a clear consensus yet.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 01:38, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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