Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elisa (restaurant)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. BusterD (talk) 13:12, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Elisa (restaurant)[edit]

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I withdraw this nomination for deletion. WizardGamer775 (talk) 11:03, 2 April 2024 (UTC) ~~Please see Wikipedia:Notability (organizations).~~ [reply]

I don't think this restaurant is notable as it doesn't have "substantial coverage"- all there is are articles about how it is on the Michelin star list and how Wayne Gretzky ate there. The coverage is merely trivial. I don't think this restaurant is notable enough to be on Wikipedia. WizardGamer775 (talk) 18:21, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Food and drink, Business, and Canada. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:23, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The restaurant business is notoriously fickle, and restaurants in general have a habit of not lasting for a long time. This place is 5 years and a few months old. New restaurants that have quality, as this one apparently does, often receive a lot of press but it's usually all local coverage. Elisa received a Michelin star, so Bravo for that, but I've got a basic problem with providing a young-lived restaurant that has one location with an article. If they make it to 10 years, try recreating the article. PK T(alk) 20:46, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You've stated some personal preferences without actually saying anything about the amount of coverage this particular restaurant has received to date. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:15, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, that's incorrect. I wrote, "New restaurants that have quality, as this one apparently does, often receive a lot of press but it's usually all local coverage." PK T(alk) 23:07, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's a general statement about restaurant coverage, not an assessment of the subject's secondary coverage. All you've said specifically about Elisa is that the restaurant is "apparently" of quality. I don't expect to change your vote, so I'll move on to other things. I'm so tired of discussing restaurant notability, someone else can drive for a while... ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:21, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct. I agree that 5 years is not enough for a restaurant. 10 years might be. WizardGamer775 (talk) 00:08, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per GNG (disclaimer: page creator). I disagree with the nominator's assessment that "all there is are articles about how it is on the Michelin star list and how Wayne Gretzky ate there". That's far from accurate, and actually misleading. I've been able to quickly and easily expand this entry to add detail about the menu, interior, leadership and operations, and reception, using plenty of journalistic sources: The Globe and Mail, Vancouver Magazine, Vancouver Sun, Wine Spectator, The Georgia Straight, Daily Hive, and Retail Insider. The article should be expanded, not deleted. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:59, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is only trivial coverage. The restaurant is only mentioned in lists or name reveals. That doesn't make it notable at all. To your credit, you found a lot of sources but unfortunately it still doesn't make it notable.

Think of it this way. Is a shop notable if it's mentioned in 40 versions of the Yellow Pages? Is it notable if it's advertised in 10 newspapers? Not necessarily.

Thus, your arguments (I mean this politely) isn't valid. Unless you find something significant unfortunately the article may have to be deleted. WizardGamer775 (talk) 23:34, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for acknowledging that I've found a lot of sources. Sorry, but I don't consider these publications equivalent to the Yellow Pages. I strongly disagree with your assessment and I am going to move on. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:01, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Indeed there are more restaurants to have this type of coverage, which are not in the wikipedia. But that doesn't mean that this one doesn't fit in. The sources are sufficient and sufficiently varied (both in type of source, and in type of information they are covering). L.tak (talk) 22:12, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Have a look at the sources, it's just lists that mention Elisa or celebrating it's opening or a michelin star. I don't think the sources make it notable in all honesty. WizardGamer775 (talk) 23:36, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:ORGDEPTH. Coverage is not sustained or varied. —Joeyconnick (talk) 22:52, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Strong news coverage exists as evident by 42 sources. IMO, it should not have been nominated. Perfectstrangerz (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are 42 sources but they are all trivial mentions. Just because it is mentioned doesn't make it notable. WizardGamer775 (talk) 01:42, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: An evaluation of sources would be helpful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, voorts (talk/contributions) 01:12, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. WP:MILL could not be clearer: In every city and town are single-location businesses (e.g. ... restaurant ...) and in some places, most businesses fit this description. Yet they may be mentioned in reliable sources. ... Some articles not to create based on common sources only are: A restaurant that has been given reviews in the local papers. Yes, there are lots of references but they are all mundane, and this is exactly what WP:MILL talks about: there is nothing here to elevate this restaurant above the ordinary. (Also, contrary to some assertions above, it does not have a Michelin star.) The proliferation of articles about non-notable restaurants should stop. Dorsetonian (talk) 08:37, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I can only repeat the first relisting comment: There are a lot of general comments about coverage but a source analysis table would benefit this discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:45, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't planning to correct the two delete voters who said the restaurant has received a Michelin star. But at this point, it is worth correcting because the errors suggest sometimes votes at AfD are cast without careful consideration and thorough review of sourcing. MILL is an essay and does not apply, and the coverage is not "all mundane" -- even if you remove the local awards for Best New Restaurant, ranking in Best Steakhouses category, Sommelier of the Year, etc, you still have recognition by Wine Spectator and recommendation in the Michelin Guide. These things are not achieved by the vast majority of restaurants. --Another Believer _(Talk) 18:06, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - significant coverage? Mention by Michelin? Why are we even here? There's a lot of comments here the coverage being entirely trivial - but how is the Globe article trivial. The G&M is Canada's biggest national paper; this is hardly local coverage. Nfitz (talk) 17:17, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Nfitz. At the time I nominated the article for deletion, none of these sources were apparent. Thanks for bringing up this article. Since I nominated the page for deletion, sources have appeared on the page. Anyways I will let consensus decide the fate of the article. WizardGamer775 (talk) 21:02, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:BEFORE ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:11, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My suggestion @Another Believer is that you could perhaps start your articles in a draft space prior to moving them to the article space. Otherwise, people might question the notability of your article's subject.

Now, hear me out. I made the same mistake with one of my articles and it got sent back to the draft space. Note that I am making this suggestion to help you. Perhaps this will mean less AfDs on your articles. WizardGamer775 (talk) 21:15, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Care to change your vote to keep? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:17, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given that this has already had a wide mixture of votes I think it is best we let the community decide. WizardGamer775 (talk) 21:37, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. This article has been heavily edited since its nomination. Please review changes to see whether or not it impacts your opinion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:37, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Liz We can withdraw it. WizardGamer775 (talk) 13:43, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure withdrawing is possible, since at least one other editor has voted delete, but I'll happily change my vote to speedy keep per your comment. Thanks, ---Another Believer _(Talk) 13:50, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for mentioning your changing stance, WizardGamer775, it would help if you made a withdrawal statement under your deletion nomination as some editors don't scroll all of the way down the page. But there are three editors arguing for deletion so this can't be closed as a Speedy Keep. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:13, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.