Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elena Zagorskaya

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎ as a probable hoax. ^Complex/_Rational 13:57, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Elena Zagorskaya[edit]

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"Famous singer Elena Zagorskaya" is a hoax. First discovered mention [1], added by puppet of globally locked vandal.
There are no mentions of Elena Zagorskaya in 'Музыкальная энциклопедия. Гл. ред. Ю. В. Келдыш. Т. 3. Корто — Октоль. 1104 стб. с илл. М.: Советская энциклопедия, 1976' and 'German, Anna; Герман, Анна (2013). Ėkho liu͡bvi. I. M. Ilʹichev, И. М. Ильичев. Moskva. ISBN 978-5-4438-0293-0. OCLC 858424377' books according to discussion on Russian Wikipedia [2].
'Svoboda, Martin. "Елена Иосифовна Загорская цитаты Цитаты известных личностей". Ru.citaty.net' — user-generated website.
'"Путин поздравил Елену Загорскую с днём рождения". ФСН' and '"В Италии сообщили о скандале в семье Елены Загорской". dzen.ru' — blogs.
See also that sockpuppet investigation [3], discussion on Russian Wikipedia about deletion [4] and that discussion [5]. Хоббит (talk) 13:55, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by blocked sock Janeknichell

Not hoax. I have searched the web and looked at some sources speaking about Elena Zagorskaya. Basically all of them are well-known reliable sources, such as French Le Figaro and Chilean state radio ADN. There are many more Russian speaking ones, such as Komsomolskaya Pravda and others, so the AfD explanation by the nominator is at least implausible. I will be requesting online "Музыкальная энциклопедия. Гл. ред. Ю. В. Келдыш. Т. 3. Корто — Октоль. 1104 стб. с илл. М.: Советская энциклопедия, 1976" (Soviet Encyclopedia of Music) to confirm whether Zagorskaya's career is described there. As the Merited Artist of RSFSR and the only Soviet singer to be the friend of Italian mafia, the person clearly passes WP:GNG. --Janeknichell (talk) 14:01, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[6] — edit by account from sockpuppet investigation, and so on. Хоббит (talk) 14:39, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That may indeed be the edit by a sockpuppet. But this discussion is about the article's subject, not about some sockpuppet investigations. Janeknichell (talk) 15:13, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure why you think the Figaro article helps, it's about Berlusconi. She's mentioned once, as a singer. Oaktree b (talk) 18:37, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's because the nominator argues that the subject is a hoax, when it's clearly not. Name drops are not enough, but I have downloaded "Музыкальная энциклопедия. Гл. ред. Ю. В. Келдыш. Т. 3. Корто — Октоль. 1104 стб. с илл. М.: Советская энциклопедия, 1976" and finally can confirm this encyclopedia has an extensive article about her biography. It confirms that Zagorskaya was blamed for association with Silician mafia in 1960s, that makes her the only Soviet singer related to Western mobsters in Soviet era, so this is the primary reason of notability in this case. In another Russian source, Komsomolskaya Pravda, the same statement is confirmed. Плейбой, геймер, крестный отец: в Италии арестован последний великий босс "Коза Ностры" - KP.RU Janeknichell (talk) 18:50, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously not. According to name of the book ('Корто — Октоль'), it contains only articles, whose names begin with letters К, Л, М, Н, О. Хоббит (talk) 19:09, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Janeknichell account, which is the only one here arguing for retention, is only a few hours old and has only been used to edit on the subject of Elena Zagorskaya. GA-RT-22 (talk) 00:36, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and Lithuania. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 14:15, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for lack of sourcing. Name drops don't help establish notability. Oaktree b (talk) 18:38, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I know nothing about this subject but there has been a lot of editing on this article by recently discovered sockpuppets. Maybe rather than deleting this article, it would be okay to revert back to this version, before they starting changing content on the page. This might remove the suspected hoax content and retain what is accurate. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:33, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll ping the nominator, User:Хоббит, to see what they think of this suggestion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:35, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think, this article contains hoax from the begining; statement that Anna German (famous soviet singer) involved in car crash with another singer (unknown on the internet till 2020s) sounds like nonsense. The first author used 5 sources, 3 of them very unreliable (probably created by blocked vandal) and 2 of them are books in russian which don't contain any information about that person. I think, vandal created article on another site, and author of Wikipedia's article used information and sources from it. The article at Russian Wikipedia has been deleted. Хоббит (talk) 23:06, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[7]. Хоббит (talk) 23:29, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Елена_Загорскаја . Хоббит (talk) 23:38, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I've notified the article creator, who I hope will turn up to comment. For the record I've no reason to believe the creator is the same as the LTA socks. It may be worth noting the SPI: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Birdsflyinghigh123. This LTA is long known to aim to propagate hoaxes and create external sources. I want to comment on the Daily Mirror, which is used as a reference in the original copy. No one would say the Mirror is reliable, but the mention of Elena Zagorskaya in that article seems especially non-believable after you read our article on Matteo Messina Denaro (assuming that's correct). The LTA also mentions on the talk page about how there are songs on YouTube. They seem equally fake. A hoax of this type is well within the MO of this LTA, and I'd want to see something amazing before I'd vote to keep it. Until then, consider me a delete. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 23:40, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – No evidence of notability, probable hoax. The few mentions in RS are likely lazy journalism using WP as a source. GA-RT-22 (talk) 21:40, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. WP:HOAX according to russian deletion discussion. -- Werter1995 (talk) 10:41, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Not hoax, but (currently) no proof of notability either. As the sockpuppet in question mentioned above, the subject is present on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B0+%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F) and other non-RS websites, but it is still unclear how it's notable according to the article. It is not enough to be just the Merited Artist of RSFSR to have a Wikipedia article; in most cases involving Soviet singers and actors the subject must be either the People's Artist of RSFSR or the People's Artist of USSR, which are two higher and much more prestigious honorary titles. For example, Olga Voronets was the People's Artist of RSFSR and therefore has her own Wikipedia article. I honestly don't know if being only the Merited Artist of RSFSR, the lowest Soviet title for artists, is enough for Wikipedia, but in many cases it isn't. --Thundertruth (talk) 19:42, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You created a Wikipedia account just to make that comment? That youtube search does not prove or even suggest anything. GA-RT-22 (talk) 21:32, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is an obvious sock, so I've taken the liberty of blocking them. As I said above, those YouTube accounts all appear fake. They were all created within the last 2 years, have a minimum amount of content, few if any subscribers, and this is all well within the MO and capacity of this LTA. If you compare the search results for Olga Voronets, you get vastly different results. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 21:37, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.