Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Edward Vinatea (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. No agreement on whether the Grammy nomination is sufficient to estability notability. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:02, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Edward Vinatea[edit]

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I declined an IP's speedy on this, since claims to notability are made--but those claims all work by way of namedropping. This person is not notable. Article has no reliable sources that establish notability, Google News and Books offer nothing. Delete. At the very least delete that horrible photograph with the fan growing out of his head. Drmies (talk) 01:03, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I just saw the first AfD, and nothing there changes my mind. Mention is made of this page on AllMusic verifying some of his work--but there remains the absence of any other reliable sources that establish notability or verify any of the other facts. Should this AfD end in the article being kept, for one reason or another, I am going to insist that it be reduced to one single sentence, containing the facts in the AllMusic reference. Drmies (talk) 01:08, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Drmies is looking to establish WP:N as as a musician...Yo, thats not why this subject has an article here. He is an audio engineer and became worthy of WP inclusion the moment one of his artists was nominated for a Grammy (check Ashley Altman Grammy award nomination 2006 (listed as #6) from the book itself) Some stuff can be found at Allmusic.com & some stuff at Discogs. It's obvious the Allmusic doesn't list him as engineer on so many titles. Case in point is Altman's album. He also works with professionals you've never heard of like Ed Chalpin which you made a personal attack here [1] and Kimo Kaulani. To verify all this, Google is your best friend, use it. Jrod2 (talk) 17:56, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You might could start by adding reliable sources to the article. We're clearly not dealing with Bob Ludwig here, or Rudy Van Gelder. What you call a personal attack is actually the undoing of namedropping and notability by association: there is a photograph of your guy and Ed Chalpin, Ed Chalpin worked with Hendrix (yes, Jimi), therefore your guy is notable. Also, I don't understand your first sentence, but it is clear that WP:N should apply across the board, and it doesn't here: subjects need reliable secondary sources to establish notability, even if the particular notability is inherent to a position or an award, like an Olympic Medal. I don't believe that engineering a nominated album automatically confers notability, that's the bottomline, and you can't make any other claims for notability because there aren't any to make with reliable sources. Oh, I know what Google is, thank you. This edit, which I will let stand for now to indicate the straws you are clutching at, suggests that WP:RS is not daily reading: you make our encyclopedia claim your subject is a musical person by pointing at his MySpace. Drmies (talk) 20:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wait--you're saying that engineering a song which is nominated for a Grammy for "Best Female Pop Vocal Performance" along with 139 other pop vocal performances confers notability? 1 out of 140? That's not very selective. Drmies (talk) 20:20, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

strong keep Mastered Geri King. comment:I've been contibutining to this article subject & fwiw all mastering engineers are by nature name droppers, piggy backers, and the large majority are a bunch of prima donnas. The subject is at least multifaceted and I looks like he is a threat to his peers because he can sing or mix. So many ip trolls have taken issue with this engineer his page should be protected not deleted. 69.10.63.226 (talk) 20:36, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:49, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What this dude Drmies is suggesting is: mastering engineers aren't worth a mention when their clients only get an award nomination - that or maybe - award nominations are BS to establish notability. Either way he clearly has no idea of how difficult it's for any musician to achieve a Grammy nomination. Dude instead of tagging away for convenience look for suitable citations. I just found this with little effort at http://www.billboard.com/#/album/cindy-blackman/music-for-the-new-millennium/775151 .Maybe he thinks C Blackman is not notable too? 1 more thing - if everyone has to be like Bob L then 90% of all engineer pages would be removed from wikipedia [lol]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.45.58.130 (talk) 02:18, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That link doesn't mention the subject, and is a link to a seemingly unnotable, at least non-charting album anyways. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 07:21, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Notability is not inherited from the artists an engineer works with. The sound engineers aren't the ones nominated for an award, the artistes are. All in all, this guy fails the {general notability guidelines by some distance. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 07:21, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep.Here is the link that mentions him. Fwiw: engineers don't have a specific "Grammy" award because it would require a separate category on each style of music. Thus rely on the success of their artists awards and noms.Ubot16 (talk) 10:20, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thats hardly the significant coverage that the general notability guideline requires. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 12:24, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Award noms, mastered recordings with other notable artists, his work was covered by at some point by WorldNews.com I don't have the time to research him so I gave the subject a "weak keep". Ubot16 (talk) 12:51, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Question: what about the quote on The Huffington Post?[2] Don't they have higher editorial standards and more diligence than Wikipedia will ever have?. 204.152.202.182 (talk) 16:47, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

speedy keep.Another threshold of inclusion is this engineer worked or still does for dj/producer Tom Glide and Ekayani [3][4] who had 2 wins with an album Vinatea worked on called "Yoga On The Dancefloor And Sanskrit Mantras": Won Best Urban Track & Record Of the Year 2008 and Best Urban Track 2007 On The New Century Peoples Choice Award [5] [6][7] [8] [9] and was rated 4 stars by Time Out New York mag [10][11]. 96.45.189.199 (talk) 18:31, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

*speedy delete. this site is a joke and has no business being on wiki. A couple of credits does not make one notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.136.37 (talk) 02:26, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Çomment: Make no mistake, Yo...these are the *dynamic* anom IP addresses (166.137.136.37, , 166.137.136.226, 166.137.137.162, 166.137.137.16, 166.137.136.217, 166.137.137.182, 166.137.139.71, 166.137.136.75, 166.137.138.144, 166.137.137.16, 166.137.137.111) of "Greg", a Gearslutz.com troll. His IP's are also most likely proxies, aight? He came to Wikipedia out of the blue in July this year to rv removed links to that public forum used as citations [12]. Then after he realized he was getting nowhere wit me, he decided to make accusations n' personal attacks [13] like: "he's in a jihad against gearslutz" [14] and "Joe has beef with gearslutz or something" [15]. Then after the Gearslutz WP:RS/N discussion was closed with unreliable consensus, he started to make a whole bunch of nonconstructive edits to this article under AfD nomination. There is at least another ip address that matches his edit style. Btw, this was originally Proded not AfDed by another one-edit ip address (187.20.114.22) matching edit style with *Greg* [16] which i find too serendipitous :) Anywhoo...He is clearly a troll n' short of a range block which could effect many ppl, his comments are just stricken from the record. Jrod2 (talk) 14:50, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.