Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Edward Tipper

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Evaluating this AfD, there were many !votes for keep with a fuzzy understanding of how applicable policy may apply to the article given the sources and coverage. Both sides have arguments that are vague and don't necessarily refute the other side. Some participants expressed their views without a !vote, however their views also expressed interest in keeping but not necessarily for policy reasons. There was no consensus for redirect and based on the quality and content of the comments here, I am closing this as no consensus. (non-admin closure) -- Dane ^talk 04:24, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Edward Tipper[edit]

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Edward Tipper was an enlisted man in E Company, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment in the 101st Airborne Division during World War II. He was with the company from its early training until he lost an eye during Operation Overlord. His rank (private first class) and awards (highest U.S. Purple Heart) leave him unqualified for a page under WP:SOLDIER (His page shows a Bronze Star Medal but there is no information about the conditions under which it was awarded; the decision in 1947 to award Bronze Stars to infantrymen is noted). Post-War, he earned a masters degree and became a teacher; while well regarded at the local level, he did not achieve wide-ranging notability. Information about Tipper did appear in both the Ambrose work and the mini-series based on it and in We Who Are Alive and Remain.--Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 00:29, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 00:29, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Michigan-related deletion discussions. Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 00:29, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Colorado-related deletion discussions. Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 00:29, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 00:29, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: @Smmurphy: kindly pointed out to me Tipper's obituary appeared in a number of newspapers nationwide; the obituary had been picked up by the Associated Press. I counted about twenty papers. The notices were basically similar and spoke of his brief time in the Army and his career as a teacher.--Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 00:36, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

To expand on the previous comment, Tipper's obituary was carried by the Associated Press and published in the Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tribune (shortened), Philadelphia Inquirer, Baltimore Sun, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Indianapolis Star (shortened), South Florida Sentinel, and many more papers. The Denver Post obituary linked in the article is longer than most of these, which are about 11 paragraphs. You can find more at google books or newspapers.com. Outside of this and BoB-verse material, there is not much interest in him from the news. Thus the "Early life" and "Later life" sections of the article likely passes WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:NPOV. Parts of the Military Service sections are only in the BoB-verse material, I don't know whether or not they are well documented enough to pass V, but they may be corroborated from records possibly available at Fold3 or elsewhere. The John Hay Fellowship was awarded to a large number (Brotherton says Tipper said about 30, but elsewhere the number in 1961 is said to be 76) of teachers (fourteen are listed here). Finally, the portrayal of Tipper in the miniseries is a significant part of a masters these (here). As that thesis has not, that I can find, been cited elsewhere, it may not be considered reliable per WP:SCHOLARSHIP. As I don't think BoB-verse books are terribly reliable, I see this case largely as one of having a number of poor sources, a widely carried obituary, and a (or possibly more) routine mention. I don't have a !vote at this time. Smmurphy^(Talk) 19:53, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: The fact that his military career was given major prominence through the clearly notable Band of Brothers makes him more notable than his career alone would suggest. He's received significant coverage in both a book and a major TV series. Mattyjohn (talk) 23:34, 22 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 07:13, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 18:10, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tenuous Keep:WP:MILNG is deliberately rather vague on people, giving a significant non-stated area between those definitely in and definitely out. Mattyjohn is correct that having his actions portrayed in a major series certainly would appear to bump him up - there are counterparts to the source given that indicate that the bronze star was awarded (the original does too, but the relevant bit hides under a pay wall rapidly). Therefore I am inclined to say the article scrapes in. Nosebagbear (talk) 23:55, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I don't doubt that Tipper was a nice guy but he didn't have a "military career;" he was discharged in 1945 after losing an eye in Normandy in 1944. he's is barely mentioned in the book and series (as compared to Guarnere, Winters, Webster, Compton, and Speirs); the information that does appear is largely anecdotal. There's nothing in Ambrose's book about Tipper being involved in the fence-cutting incident that was featured in the first(?) episode of the series; the producers admitted to combining characters. There's no mention of Tipper getting a Bronze Star in Ambrose's book; Tipper may have received one under the later provision of awarding BSMs (without the "V" device) to infantrymen, which I'm not knocking.--Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 01:18, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep: Because I like it~~ --- Comments: If we can't decide IAR then just consensus against policy will work. The subject was portrayed in a mini-series, apparenty not a major character nor even a minor one with a major roll in three episodes. As far as I know the subject did not author anything such as Edward Heffron, but an editor above has found reportedly "significant coverage", that might be national coverage via obituaries picked up by the Associate Press, and there should be no reason (other than policies and guidelines) why we can't build biographies from obituaries maybe except WP:NOTMEMORIAL. Since !voting sometimes actually translates to head counts or "no consensus" by confusion, I will obstain from !voting because "I do like it". That is not suppose to be a reason for a "keep !vote" as the bigraphical guideline states "For people, the person who is the topic of a biographical article should be "worthy of notice" or "note" – that is, "remarkable" or "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded" within Wikipedia as a written account of that person's life. "Notable" in the sense of being "famous" or "popular" – although not irrelevant – is secondary.". GNG states "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list.". "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." A Bronze Star could have been given by any captain to any person under his command that was "mentioned in orders" or "received a certificate for exceptional service", having performed a deed of "merit". This could be to any military person that had received the Combat Infantryman Badge or the Combat Medical Badge so is not that "significant". Lacking the "oak leaf cluster", golden star, or "V" for "heoism in battle", it is not monumentally notable. Lacking a consensus for WP:IAR we can stretch the included "interesting" reasoning, that still seems better listed as "because I like it", when lacking the needed sourcing. Otr500 (talk) 06:23, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz ^Humbug! 11:49, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to book or movie. Insufficient individual notability to support an article.--Rpclod (talk) 17:23, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, notable for being portrayed in the Band of Brothers series as well as in the book. The Band of Brothers template includes this page. No harm in keeping it, and a gain for Band of Brothers researchers to be able to access it. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:29, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.