Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/DeKoven Street (Chicago)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:47, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

DeKoven Street (Chicago)

DeKoven Street (Chicago) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Article is about a small, single block street that is used primarily used as a parking lot for the Chicago Firefighting Academy, the only structure on the street. Other than being the starting point of the Great Chicago Fire, there is no evidence of this street meeting WP:NTSR and Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Streets#Guidelines. Yes, it is mentioned in several books and newspaper articles, but they are all in reference to the fire. This seems to be a case of WP:NOTINHERITED as the street is only known due to the fire and just because it is named after a notable figure doesn't mean it is notable itself (if there was a small residential street named "John Adams Place" or "Benjamin Franklin Way," I highly doubt we would have articles on them). 24.146.209.22 (talk) 23:49, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - I completed the nomination for the IP user, and am neutral. Ansh666 03:32, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 03:58, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

• Keep There seems to be enough sourcing to justify an article. The fact that was the site of the start of the fire and is now obscure is interesting in itself. Kitfoxxe (talk) 04:53, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
  • WP:ITSINTERESTING. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:35, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - Next thing you know people are gonna be hauling off Mrs. O'Leary's Cow. The Great Chicago Fire is a legendary part of 19th Century American history and this street as the epicenter of the fire meets any reasonable standard of importance. Not accidentally, the street is now the site of the Chicago Firefighting Academy. In short: it's a tourist attraction. Carrite (talk) 07:05, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
  • WP:OTHERSTUFF, WP:ITSNOTABLE. We don't go by "importance" for this sort of subject, we go by "notability". - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:34, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - per Kitfoxxe and Carrite. Fitnr 18:52, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:14, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

• Merge to Great Chicago Fire. Notability is not inherited from either the fire starting there or the academy being located there, and beyond "the fire started on..." and "the Academy is located on..." the notability of this street is neligible. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:34, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - per Carrite. →Davey2010→→Talk to me!→ 02:39, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
• Redirect to Great Chicago Fire per Bushranger. This is a case of WP:NOTINHERITED since no one would know that this street even exists had the fire never happened. What is really so important about a a single-block parking lot? And I don't think it being the location of Firefighting Academy has anything to do with the fire. The Legendary Ranger (talk) 01:15, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - per User:Burnhamandroot Having written a paper about the Great Chicago Fire years ago when I was in school, I have points I’d like to make regarding this topic that I hope will be useful to this discussion: First of all, I believe that the article should be allowed to stand on its own because the City of Chicago itself finds the street notable. If you look at old maps of the area, you’ll see that DeKoven Street was at the time it was laid out six times longer than it is today, extending at that time all the way from Halsted St. to Stewart (itself having been vacated at this location). The only portion of the street that remains is this section of it, which, for obviously historical reasons, has been allowed to remain. As a matter of fact, the city designated the site a Chicago Landmark in 1971, honoring it with a brass plaque and a large sculpture as the site of the origin of the Great Chicago Fire. The Chicago Fire Academy sits on the site today, and “The address by design is the same as where legend has it that Mollie [actually Catherine] O’Leary’s cow kicked over the lantern that started the great Chicago fire of 1871.” . Mrs. O’Leary’s address of 137 DeKoven Street was converted to the current 558 when addresses in Chicago were unified in 1906, and the location of Mrs. O’Leary’s cottage is marked in the academy’s lobby. It should be pointed out that the origin of the fire is certain according to contemporary accounts, although the legend of the cow is likely not accurate. Regarding the question of outside sources on the subject, the Tribune itself has made nearly 300 references to the street since the fire, and finding references to it in books devoted to the history of the city are numerous. In my view, conditions in 1871 on DeKoven Street played a significant role in the fire’s ability to get a running start, and this article would be a good place to explore that question. At the very least, a picture of Mrs. O’Leary’s house would help immensely to make the point.

References

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.