Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dara Fitzpatrick

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Following a relist and many contributions to the debate, I don't quite feel there's a concrete consensus here. Allowing the AFD to run on would only, surely, continue with the Keep/Redirect (there's not enough to indicate outright deletion is in favour here) split. I think it's best to strike this off as a no consensus at this time. KaisaL (talk) 02:49, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dara Fitzpatrick[edit]

Dara Fitzpatrick (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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An individual is not notable simply because s/he died in a notable incident. There is no indication that the subject meets WP:BIO or WP:GNG. Prod tag removed. ... discospinster talk 02:48, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete (or redirect) - Respectfully have to agree with nom. (The primary subject, as covered in 2017 Irish Coast Guard S-92 crash and elsewhere, absolutely meets the relevant notability criteria for WP:EVENT. The guidelines however do not immediately support a standalone article or articles on the victim or victims of the (granted heartbreaking) event. Per WP:VICTIM and WP:BIO1E, people whose notability stems from their association with an event are generally covered in the article on the event.) At best the title might redirect to 2017 Irish Coast Guard S-92 crash. Guliolopez (talk) 23:26, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Everymorning (talk) 03:17, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. Everymorning (talk) 03:17, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete (or redirect). Not notable in life, not varied by death. WWGB (talk) 03:35, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"WELL-KNOWN PILOT Dara Fitzpatrick has been named as the first casualty of this morning’s rescue helicopter crash." "not notable" is incorrect. IrishSpook (talk) 01:29, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Show me one independent source about her BEFORE her death. Oh wait, there aren't any! WWGB (talk) 02:03, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just one example of many from August 2013. IrishSpook (talk) 19:19, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete (or redirect) - Respectfully have to agree with nom. WP:NOT.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:00, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep . The individual's personal life and death has made headlines nationwide so to me it's notable — Preceding unsigned comment added by 51.171.143.68 (talk) 10:19, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
— 51.171.143.68 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. WWGB (talk) 12:39, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep. Sure, we've never heard of her before her death, but, as the IP stated, reports are emerging as to her notability. RTE states "she became the first female commercial pilot in [Ireland] and went on to be the first female captain in the country," which I have added to her article. — Wyliepedia 10:38, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Again, I feel very uncomfortable with this discussion personally, given the immediacy and sensitivity of the situation. However, either the RTÉ statement ("first commercial pilot in Ireland") is not properly qualified, or is not correct. (The "first commercial female pilot in the country" was Cpt Gráinne Cronin, who became a pilot with EI in the 1970s, and became a captain with EI in the 1980s. In both cases Cpt Fitzpatrick would still have been at school). It's possible that perhaps RTE intended "first commercial *helicopter* pilot" or "first commercial *helicopter SAR* pilot". If they did, I'm not sure perhaps that that contributes to notability directly. Guliolopez (talk) 11:23, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Added a {{dubious}} tag. — Wyliepedia 11:59, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. First female Irish pilot to die on active service? Was on a TV programme profiling her job, crewed the first all-female helicopter mission..... all seems notable to me. The joy of all things (talk) 11:48, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete – No significant coverage outside of Wikipedia:ONEEVENT. Hirolovesswords (talk) 11:49, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Appearing on national and international television documentaries, professional YouTube videos, radio, TV, online and newspaper interviews all before the tragedy. IrishSpook (talk) 01:29, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect. I suggest a temporary redirect. If further information about her comes to light, the article can then be reinstated without controversy. Deb (talk) 12:46, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Notable as per first in what she did and notable death sure to be remembered for years to come ...stop deleting just to delete...Masterknighted (talk) 15:58, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I see literally dozens of RS Sources in Google News. Notable per sources and the sad "first" as very nicely explained above.104.163.144.60 (talk) 18:10, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - The reason why i created an article for Dara Fitzpatrick was because of the headlines she made in my native country Ireland and her being an influence to all Irish women considering her accomplishments. Optimistic Wikipedian (talk)18:25, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:43, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:43, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:43, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect. There is clearly only ONE correct move at this juncture and that is to REDIRECT to 2017 Irish Coast Guard S-92 crash and add salient info from the Fitzpatrick article to the latter article. You're all very welcome. Quis separabit? 02:34, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect. Agree with Quis separabit's assessment. Finnegas (talk) 11:23, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly Keep. Capt Dara Fitzpatrick was indeed notable long before this tragic incident, contrary to some of the above. She was a featured in a number of television documentaries which aired on major Irish and UK television networks and would have been very well known within the UK & Irish and European SAR community. She was the pilot in charge of Rescue 116, she was the Irish Coast Guard's most experienced and most senior pilot and one of the most experienced helicopter pilots of any agency or organisation in Ireland and the British Isles. Capt Fitzpatrick was, as one of the most preeminent female pilots in Irish aviation, a trailblazer and I fully support a separate, individual article about her. As regards the 3 other victims of this tragedy, who are still unfortunately missing, referenced can and will be made to them in the overarching 2017 Irish Coast Guard S-92 crash article. I strongly reject the rapid deletion tagging of the article on Dara Fitzpatrick, given the fact this incident only occurred a matter of days ago. It was unnecessary. IrishSpook (talk) 16:04, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Furthermore, other issues such as a lack of resources dedicated to the Defence Forces resulting in the inability of the Irish Air Corps to launch top cover which was originally requested by the Irish Coast Guard which led to Rescue 116 being deployed, will be covered in the main 2017 Irish Coast Guard S-92 crash article. That article is about the incident, not a biography about the people involved in it. IrishSpook (talk) 16:12, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect. She is quasi-notable for two things: the crash and the TV series. Neither on its own is enough for WP:NOTABILITY; I don't think even added together she meets the threshold, at least not yet. WP:NOTMEMORIAL If she becomes an important symbol in the months ahead that may change, but it will be simple to revisit the question then.
    • the fact that she was a woman has probably framed media coverage of the tragedy. But "first woman from country X to do job Y" is not a guarantee of notability. A desire to celebrate women blazing trails in male occupations cannot ignore WP:NOTADVOCATE.
    • RTE made three seasons of 6-part documentaries about Irish search-and-rescue: Rescue 117 (2010), Rescue 115 (2011), and Ireland’s Search and Rescue (2012). None of the three seems to have a Wikipedia article. Fitzpatrick was the lead pilot in Rescue 117, but I don't think most such factual/fly-on-the-wall series have articles about the "star". As it stand, not even the series themselves have a Wikipedia article.
    • jnestorius(talk)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J947 06:27, 24 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or redirect - Appearing in documentaries about a wider subject does not confer notability, nor does dying in a notable crash. #WP:BLP1E — Rwxrwxrwx (talk) 19:11, 24 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Masterknighted, at least Merge if nothing else. ground-breaking career, tragic death Montanabw(talk) 02:48, 25 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to 2017 Irish Coast Guard Rescue 116 crash I don't see enough coverage before this event. The claims about being the "first female commercial pilot" seems to be incorrect. A redirect works well here. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 09:38, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to what? There's no information on Capt Fitzpatrick on that page other than a reference being made to her name and the article on her. IrishSpook (talk) 20:47, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Well-known notable Irish woman. From 2009 "Sea crash pilot is saved by Cpt Dara ... This daring rescue operation in Wexford is just another day at the office for Dara Fitzpatrick."[1] From 2010 "For the first time ever RTÉ cameras have been given exclusive access to the Irish Coast Guard's helicopter Search and Rescue service ... Leading some of the most dramatic rescues ever caught on film is chief pilot Dara Fitzpatrick who is one of only a handful of female civilian rescue pilots in the world."[2] From 2010 "The crew of an emergency search and rescue helicopter has been awarded the Best of Irish Award for rescuing a stricken pilot when his light aircraft crashed into the Irish Sea. ... Captain Dara Fitzpatrick ... present to collect the award."[3] From 2013 "TWO Coast Guard pilots have made Irish aviation history by flying the first all-female mission for the service. The Shannon-based search and rescue Helicopter R115 flew its first missions with a female pilot and co-pilot, Capt Dara Fitzpatrick and Capt Carmel Kirby."[4] And: "In 2007, the Irish Bishops’ Conference produced a series of videos on the theme of alcohol and the challenge of moderation. In this first part, we get an insight into the work of Irish Coast Guard helicopter pilot Dara Fitzpatrick."[5] Aoibheann Dubheasa (talk) 20:38, 28 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as per IrishSpook and Aoibheann Dubheasa References show she is not just notable because of the news of her death. Seems a sight more worthy of retention than a whole load of trivial articles we find in this encyclopaedia on anime characters, pointless reality show 'celebrities' and the like. Only arrived here to spell-check, but some things seem worth defending. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:24, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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