Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Danny Welbeck

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep John Vandenberg (talk) 19:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Danny Welbeck[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Danny Welbeck (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

The criterion for notability is appearance in a competitive match Kevin McE (talk) 01:58, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Speedy keep. All professional athletes in major sports are notable per WP:BIO. Pburka (talk) 02:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Withdrawing vote, as I'm not sure that playing with a premiership team in a friendly is really sufficient. Pburka (talk) 01:59, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep currently just scrapes through WP:BIO#Athletes, though quite likely to gain greater notability in the near future. RMHED (talk) 02:34, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Meets guidelines for biographies of athletes, as he's played at professional level. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 02:54, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as creator Still in the stages of creating/expanding it. Unlikely to gain significant info quickly as stated above. TOSH(talk) 04:20, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as, contrary to what is stated above, subject has not played at a professional level, only in reserve/non-competitive matches..... ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:59, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong delete Correcting the above, he has not played in a fully professional league, and saying "though quite likely to gain greater notability in the near future" violates WP:CRYSTAL. пﮟოьεԻ 57 08:18, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - is a current first-team squad member at a large Premier League club. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 13:33, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Someone tell me if I'm reading this wrong, as my football is oblong. Manchester United is a professional team in the Premier League, and this individual is a member of their first string, right? That sounds to me like he is a professional athlete at the highest level, which would be a Keep. From WP:CRYSTAL: Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation. All articles about anticipated events must be verifiable, and the subject matter must be of sufficiently wide interest that it would merit an article if the event had already occurred. In this case, the anticipated event is both imminent (he will likely play in the next game as a member of the first squad) and verifiable (as the source cited confirms this). Therefore, I don't think WP:CRYSTAL really applies. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 13:44, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "he will likely play in the next game as a member of the first squad" - that isn't in fact likely at all..... ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:49, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've struck it - I took the source to indicate that he would be a starter, that doesn't appear to be the case. My point on the fact that the future event (playing on a pro team) is verifiable (the source does say that) stands. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 13:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • I'd say he is definitely long odds-against to get a game for Manchester United this season. After that, who knows. In my opinion, a clear cut case of WP:CRYSTAL. fchd (talk) 14:37, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep Seems to meet notability standards. --Solumeiras (talk) 14:37, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Not notable. --Solumeiras (talk) 12:36, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep part of a national youth team squad, so highest level for that age group. MU reserves probably have have a higher notability than other professional players lower down the divisions. We will probably know in a year if he makes the first team, (seems a hot tip [1]) So defer debate for a year. --Salix alba (talk) 13:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • a) It has been general practice to dismiss Youth internationals as non-notable (Gavin Hoyte excepted), and b) your argument reminds me strongly of WP:CRYSTAL. A better idea would be to re-create it when he does make the first team, at Old Trafford or elsewhere. In fact, at www.manutd.com, he's not listed in the first team profiles, or the reserve squad profiles (although only 10 players are listed there). He's just shown on the Academy profiles, along with 23 others. Delete (thought I'd already !voted on this one before, but it appears I've just made a single comment above) - fchd (talk) 14:00, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Just a quick question, don't take it the wrong way. How is Gavin Hoyte any more important than Danny Welbeck? They both have equal first-team appearances, but the only difference is the importance of the match they have appeared in. TOSH(talk) 15:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Re the Question from Crassic. Hoyte hasn't actually played for Arsenal, but Wellbeck has played fot Man Utd, all though this was a friendly. If he was named on the bench for United's next game, does that mean he suddeny becomes notable? Eddie6705 (talk) 15:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete He has not yet played competitive football in a fully professional league. Robotforaday (talk) 16:56, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I thought the reason for undeleting Gavin Hoyte was that he had been given a squad number for the Arsenal first team. This is the same situation that Danny Welbeck is in (he is Man Utd's #47). – PeeJay 18:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I still can't believe the decision on the Gavin Hoyte AfD! Normal practice, however, is that a player needs to make an appearance in a fully professional league before being declared notable. Welbeck is still quite a way from that distinction, and as I said above, is not treated as a member of either the first team squad or reserve squad at the club's official website, despite the apparent allocation of a number. - fchd (talk) 18:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Regardless of what the official website says, Sir Alex Ferguson himself stated that Welbeck was to be considered a member of the first team until at least the end of the season. – PeeJay 20:25, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • [This] is where it mentions his step up. The wesite simply won't have been updated recently. Eddie6705 (talk) 20:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • We appear to have an odd discrepancy in that a player is regarded as part of the squad, and therefore to be included in the squad template and list on the club's article, by virtue of receiving a number, but the threshold for having an article is higher. However, until this is resolved, we just need to be willing to have a mixture of blue and black in squad lists. Kevin McE (talk) 22:28, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep He's in the first team squad currently and touted as a great prospect. Just because he hasn't played for the senior team that doesn't mean he shouldn't be listed otherwise most articles in the MUFC Reserves and Academy page would be deleted. I really do not get the problem with his article being here. Wikipedia is for information surely and this isn't inaccurate or badly written. Leave it ffs. Life is great...if you support Manchester United (talk) 18:42, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Just because he hasn't played for the senior team that doesn't mean he shouldn't be listed: no, but it means that there is not necessarily the requisite level of notability to have an article; otherwise most articles in the MUFC Reserves and Academy page would be deleted: thank you for drawing attention to them. I'll have a look. Kevin McE (talk) 20:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep In the first team squad having recently been given a squad number. Also in the manchester evening news article (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1033887_fergie_backing_for_welbeck) Ferguson states that he thinks he will be involved in first team affairs once or twice this season. Surely this is notable, especially given his youth international appearances. James (talk) 00:27, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Having a squad number does not meet the criteria. Whoever makes predictions, it still comes under WP:CRYSTAL. Youth internationals do not confer notability. When/if he plays, the article gains its validity: until then, it lacks it. Kevin McE (talk) 00:38, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ok im not used to the discussions and already established rules but in the notability guide it says that althletes must play a competitive game before an article is created. Has it yet been established if youth tournaments and under 18 football is a competitive game? James (talk) 01:27, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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