Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Damn Right, Rebel Proud

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. BJ^Talk 14:48, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Damn Right, Rebel Proud[edit]

No reliable sources, WP:CRYSTAL. The only sources are from Hank III's own website and what appears to be a forum. The allmusic link has just a track listing; no writers, personnel or even track lengths. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 03:11, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 03:11, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ I don't know what the exact standards are of notability for an album, but one that is self-published and not even out yet probably wouldn't make it. Northwestgnome (talk) 03:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment — It's not "self-published". It's being released on Curb Records, a notable label, and it is by a notable artist. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 03:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

My mistake. The article says "self produced" not "self published". I withdraw my vote since I am not sure about the exact standards that apply here. Northwestgnome (talk) 18:19, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- - No, it's on Sidewalk Records. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 03:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - It's on Curb. Sidewalk folded in the 1970s, thus this is either a mistake on Allmusic's part, or Sidewalk is being reintroduced as a subdivision of Curb. In either case, most sources list Curb as the label. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 05:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]
      - It could be a totally different label called Sidewalk, too. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 06:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This certainly does not meet the criteria at WP:MUSIC. --Falcon Darkstar Kirtaran (talk) 03:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep — Article has enough sources to prove the album's existence. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 03:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

There's a directory listing on Allmusic and a primary source. Do you really think that's enough? Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 03:50, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Simply existing is not enough for an album to be notable. Besides that, at WP:MUSIC#Albums, note the last sentence which refers to articles containing little more than a track listing. This should be merged into the artist's page, at best. --Falcon Darkstar Kirtaran (talk) 04:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The reference is to the artists official site so there is no WP:CRYSTAL violation. The artist himself appears to be notable (as he his own article) so this meets WP:MUSIC. THEN WHO WAS PHONE? (talk) 03:51, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can't indepently verify it though. There is almost nothing outside of Hank III's own site that proves this album will even exist. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 03:53, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is this good enough? (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 04:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

No. We can't link to sales sites such as Amazon. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 04:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've had several featured articles citing pages on Amazon.com as a source. The question was not about using Amazon as a source, but as proof that it "will even exist," as you put it. Why do you even bother nominating pages for deletion without searching for these things in the first place? (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 05:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

I did search, and all I found was trivial mentions and torrents. Why did you think I didn't search? I always search before afding anything. Furthermore, Curb delays albums all the time, so there's a chance this might get shelved. What would happen then? We'd have an unsourced article on an unreleased album, and unreleased albums are almost never notable. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 05:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Fails WP:MUSIC#ALBUMS. If/when substantial coverage in reliable, third-party sources arrive, feel free to recreate. Otherwise, wait until it's released. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 12:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment — Allmusic and Amazon.com are substantial, reliable, third-party sources. There's a cover, track listing and release date. It doesn't fail the guidelines at all. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 17:43, 9 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]
  - Comment Simply existing is not enough to make an album notable, even if the person who made it is himself notable. WP:MUSIC#Albums even advises such things be put on the artist's page except in special circumstances, and as there is little to say about this album outside of asserting that it exists, I don't think it's too special. I think I've mentioned this before on this AfD, too; does anyone have a rebuttal? --Falcon Darkstar Kirtaran (talk) 21:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Falcon Kirtaran.Nrswanson (talk) 06:12, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.