Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Consort Chen Farong

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. ✗plicit 13:23, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consort Chen Farong[edit]

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No refs on the page for many years. Not seeing useful refs but they may exist in other languages. At present there are various claims on the page which should be removed per WP:V JMWt (talk) 09:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and China. JMWt (talk) 09:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Having written this a long time ago, I agree that it could and should be sourced better. However, as the mother of an emperor of a large state, she is inherently notable. --Nlu (talk) 18:14, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Nlu, any chance you remember what sources you used to write it? -- asilvering (talk) 04:05, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 11:46, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ reluctantly. I don't see the sources. There's a paragraph in the Southern History [1] that discusses her. But secondary sources in English seem to be absent, and those in Chinese appear (I'm skimming here) to mainly be from Chinese Wikipedia or Baidu Baike or scrapes of those articles, or to be brief mentions in articles on her son. Oblivy (talk) 03:57, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Redacted) 223.204.68.123 (talk) 08:35, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've redacted the comment. Thank you for your research on the sources below and for improving the article. These sources were difficult to find since it required four searches (the subject's two Chinese names and in the traditional and simplified Chinese representations of those names). It is not surprising that editors did not find sources. Oblivy does lots of good searches for sources for AfDs and is one of AfD's more thoughtful participants. Cunard (talk) 09:19, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:
People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.
- If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
Sources
1. Chen, Huaxin 陈华新 (1992). 中国历代后妃大观 [A Grand View of Chinese Concubines Through the Ages] (in Chinese). Shenzhen: Shenzhen Publishing House [zh]. p. 168. ISBN 9787805424675. Retrieved 2024-04-29 – via Google Books.
  The book notes: "陈法容发生性关系,于 469 年(宋明帝泰始五年)生了皇三子刘准(后来的宋顺帝) , 471 年封刘准为安成王,晋陈法容为昭华。 472 年明帝死,陈昭华为安成王太妃。 477 年刘准即位为宋顺帝,陈氏为皇太妃。 479 年顺帝禅位,萧道成称帝,建立齐朝,宋亡。陈法容被废去皇太妃称号。她大概死于齐朝初年。"
  From Google Translate: "Chen Farong had sexual relations and gave birth to the third son of the emperor Liu Zhun (later Emperor Shun of the Song Dynasty) in 469 (the fifth year of Taishi reign of Emperor Ming of the Song Dynasty). In 471, Liu Zhun was granted the title of King Ancheng, and Chen Farong of the Jin Dynasty was granted the title of Zhaohua. When Emperor Ming died in 472, Chen Zhaohua became Princess Ancheng. In 477, Liu Zhun ascended the throne as Emperor Shun of the Song Dynasty, and Chen became the imperial concubine. In 479, Emperor Shun ascended the throne, Xiao Daocheng proclaimed himself emperor, established the Qi Dynasty, and the Song Dynasty fell. Chen Farong was deprived of the title of Crown Princess. She probably died in the early years of the Qi Dynasty."
2. 皇后妃嫔传 [The Queen's Concubines] (in Chinese). Hainan: Hainan Publishing House [zh]. 1994. pp. 126–127. ISBN 9787805907451. Retrieved 2024-04-29 – via Google Books.
  The book notes on page 126: "陈法容,生卒年不详,宋明帝的昭华。... 明帝的陈昭华名叫法容。"
  From Google Translate: "Chen Farong, whose birth and death dates are unknown, was born in Zhaohua, Emperor Ming of the Song Dynasty. ... Emperor Ming's Chen Zhaohua was named Farong."
  The book notes on page 127: "顺帝就是桂阳王刘休范的儿子,以陈昭华为母亲。明帝去世后,陈昭华被拜为安成王太妃。顺帝即位,进封陈昭华为皇太妃。顺帝将皇帝位禅让后,陈昭华被取消了皇太妃的称号。(赵元译)【原文】明帝陈昭华讳法容,丹阳建康人也。"
  From Google Translate: "Emperor Shun was the son of King Liu Xiufan of Guiyang, and his mother was Chen Zhaohua. After the death of Emperor Ming, Chen Zhaohua was worshiped as Princess Ancheng. Emperor Shun ascended the throne and granted Chen Zhaohua the title of Crown Princess. After Emperor Shun abdicated the throne, Chen Zhaohua was revoked from the title of Crown Princess. (Translated by Zhao Yuan) [Original text] Chen Zhaohua, Emperor Ming, was a native of Jiankang in Danyang."
3. Dan, Bo 淡泊 (2006). 中华万姓谱 [Genealogy of Chinese Surnames] (in Chinese). Beijing: China Archives Publishing House [zh]. p. 1438. ISBN 9787801666819. Retrieved 2024-04-29 – via Google Books.
  The book notes: "陈法容( ? ~ ? ) ,女,南朝宋丹阳建康人。宋明帝昭华。宋顺帝即为陈法容所抚养。宋顺帝即位,进为皇太妃。"
  From Google Translate: "Chen Farong (? ~ ?), female, was born in Jiankang, Danyang, Southern Song Dynasty. Zhaohua, Emperor Ming of the Song Dynasty. Emperor Shun of the Song Dynasty was raised by Chen Farong. Emperor Shun of the Song Dynasty ascended the throne and became the imperial concubine."
4. Tang, Xiejun 唐燮军 (2007). 六朝吴兴沈氏及其宗族文化探究 [Research on the Shen Family and Their Clan Culture in Wuxing During the Six Dynasties] (in Chinese). Beijing: China Social Sciences Press. p. 371. ISBN 9787500465034. Retrieved 2024-04-29 – via Google Books.
  The book notes: "考中華書局點校本《宋書·后妃·明帝陳昭華傳》云"
  From Google Translate: "According to the "Book of Song·Concubine·Ming Emperor Chen Zhaohua Biography" compiled by Zhonghua Book Company, it says"
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Chen Farong (simplified Chinese: 陈法容; traditional Chinese: 陳法容), also known as Chen Zaohua (Chinese: 陈昭华), to pass Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says "multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability".
Cunard (talk) 08:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Wow! What an amazing, unsearched AFD! Thanks, Cunard, for finding sources. I'm working on it, but you did it quicker than me. LOL. The consort is a king's mother, and when her son Emperor Shun ascended the throne, she was promoted to be the 'Consort Dowager' (皇太妃) and mother of a kingdom. She has a full enough article in the Great View of Imperial Consorts Throughout Chinese History and Biography of the Empress and Concubines. That is more than enough to meet WP:NPOL and WP:GNG Thanks 223.204.68.123 (talk) 08:47, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

'Keep happy to see this article kept, and it's justified based on the discussion in Southern History, the Chen Huaxin article and the lesser treatment in 皇后妃嫔传. Per WP:NBASIC we can combine multiple sources with less substantial treatment for biographical articles. Oblivy (talk) 09:39, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.