Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Colin Basran

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Sandstein 07:18, 19 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Colin Basran[edit]

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As written, fails both notability basic and additional guidelines for living persons, including WP:SIG. Also, fails WP:NPOL on two counts, chiefly that (a) the individual has never held state-wide office (or above), nor has he even ran for such offices, and (b) there have been no book-length published, print or digital, works on this individual's life. As well, Google quotation mark-enclosed for "Colin Basran" (the subject) produces only trite and trivial coverage related to routine municipal business, his municipal election campaigns, and his work as a real estate agent. Doug Mehus (talk) 17:07, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Doug Mehus (talk) 17:07, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of British Columbia-related deletion discussions. Doug Mehus (talk) 17:07, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep WP:NPOL states that mayors of cities with "regional prominence" usually meet notability criteria. Kelowna is the largest city in BC's interior, so I would certainly say that it is a city of regional prominence.-- Earl Andrew - talk 17:30, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Earl Andrew, The problem is, he fails the basic criteria. I would note, too, that most, if not all, Kelowna mayors do not have biographies because they fail the basic criteria. That's paramount. Similarly, just being a journalist doesn't meet the test for notability (no other CHBC-TV personality has a Wikipedia biography, many of whom had higher profile anchor positions than Basran as a junior reporter). He simply fails WP:SIG, a critical test. Doug Mehus (talk) 17:36, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Earl Andrew, Further to your comment, I note, too, that "regional prominence," which is additional criteria I'd point out, is also subject to the following caveat, which is that, "although the article should say more than just "Jane Doe is the mayor of Cityville." In this case, that's exactly what this article is. Fundamentally, though, I go back to his failing WP:SIG (that is, press coverage that is more than passing mentions, routine municipal business, his election campaign(s), and the like), and to basic WP:NOTE guidelines. Doug Mehus (talk) 17:50, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I'll grant that this is one of the last articles about a mayor that I created before our notability standard for mayors was tightened up from "a certain arbitrary population figure confers automatic inclusion rights, so all you have to do is show verification that they've been elected as a mayor" to "you need to write a substantive and well-sourced article that actually delves into detail about his political impact" — so it certainly does need significant improvement, and is not an accurate reflection of the amount of effort I would have put into the article if I were creating it today (Doug Craig (politician) is a more representative sample of that). But notability is ultimately based much more on the existence of suitable sources, not on the current quality of the article, and Basran most certainly does have the kind of sourcing needed to improve the article with. Nominator is incorrect that statewide/provincewide office is always a base requirement for passing WP:NPOL — while that is the lowest level of political office at which we automatically accept all MLAs as being permanently notable without having to achieve anything more than serving in the legislature, mayors of significant cities most certainly are also considered notable if we have the sources with which to write a substantive article. Nominator is also incorrect that mayoral notability always requires book-length works about his life — book-length biographies certainly count as bolsterers of notability if they do exist, but the existence of book-length biographies is not a mandatory condition that a mayor always has to have before he can ever be deemed notable. If there are enough other kinds of sources (like newspaper journalism) to establish a pass of NPOL #2, then NPOL #2 is still passed. Bearcat (talk) 18:15, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bearcat, Yes, this is definitely not reflective of the typical high calibre articles you create and substantially modify. Would it be fair to say, then, your vote might be a weak keep on the basis of it being created prior to tightening up of local politician notability standards? And where articles created prior to this policy change grandfathered? As for significant press coverage, I would disagree there as none of the press coverage relates to this author's life. All of it mentions municipal business, council proceedings, his campaign, and the like, so there is not the existence of enough independent information on which to write a detailed biographical account, no?

I'm not asserting that he gets "grandfathered" because he was created before our notability standards were tightened up — I'm asserting that he can be kept because enough sources exist that the article can be improved to get him back up to the current stricter standards. And what we're looking for, when it comes to making a mayor notable enough for inclusion, is not biographical detail about his personal life — sure, we can include that kind of information if we can find it, but the presence or lack of that kind of biographical detail is actually orthogonal to whether the mayor is notable or not. What we're looking for is the ability to write and source some genuine substance about his political impact: themes he campaigned on, municipal projects he spearheaded, and other content about his political career. So the kind of sources you're talking about aren't as removed from being able to support his notability as you seem to think they are — they're actually much more important than the ability to find out where he went to high school or the names of his parents and wife and kids. Bearcat (talk) 18:32, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bearcat, Okay, thanks, so in that way, it's a little less stringent than the notability in terms of significant coverage requirements for corporations and organizations? I did look at the Doug Craig article you linked to, so perhaps, if you get time over the next 6 months or so and this survives AfD, maybe you might put this on your 'to-do' list to improve? Doug Mehus (talk) 18:37, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete fails WP:GNG, WP:NPOL as it stands. I have no issues, however, if someone wants to improve the article. SportingFlyer T·C 03:15, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
SportingFlyer, Thanks. I'm of the same view and favour a swift delete as well, without prejudice, of course, providing they can provide significant coverage (not just coverage relating to municipal business, actions or inactions, political campaigning, and the like). Doug Mehus (talk) 03:35, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just to be clear, since you nominated the article, that already counts as your bolded !vote. SportingFlyer T·C 13:00, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
SportingFlyer, Yeah, for sure. As it stands now, it's 2 votes delete and 2 votes to keep. I just wanted to clarify that the nominator's nomination does, itself, count as a vote. Doug Mehus (talk) 15:48, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete this is not a major metropolitan city. Mayors are not default notable, and we lack sufficient sources otherwise.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:41, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Earl Andrew. 2001:569:7C07:2600:A889:9836:60BD:3298 (talk) 03:29, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - at a population of 127,380, it's a borderline case. The publicity about this mayor seems to more significant than others, but I'd still like to see more sources. Bearian (talk) 14:58, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Bearian, Most, if not all of the press coverage, related to Colin Basran relates to his business as mayor of the municipality or his election campaign (which does not qualify). Also, biographical depth needs to be considered as I can find no works, print or digital, that are biographical in nature and would allow us to write more than a stub-class article. Doug Mehus (talk) 15:10, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bearian, Note also that while at CHBC-TV, long-time anchor and media personality, Rick Webber, who is more well known in these parts than Colin Basran, does not have a Wikipedia biography as there, too, are insufficient sources to write a biographical article. Similar story with Kelowna's first woman mayor, Sharon Shepherd, who also does not have a biography due to insufficient sources. Just being the first Indo-Canadian mayor of Kelowna does not make him notable. There has to be significant sources to write an article of sufficient depth. Doug Mehus (talk) 15:13, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Dmehus - just looking at news sources linked above, he seems to get into the news a lot. Let's call it shallow coverage. Bearian (talk) 15:15, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  Bearian, Yes, very shallow indeed. In the news, yes, but it's usually pretty trivial stuff (like whether Costco is going to relocate to West Kelowna - note: they're not; just moving down the street a few blocks) Doug Mehus (talk) 15:17, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per Bearcat. There's sufficient sourcing out there for at least a short bio (Province, CBC, even puffy pieces on his dress have some usable biographical detail: Nelson Star). The Interior (Talk) 22:15, 16 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The Interior, Wikipedia isn't supposed to be about just doing short bios, though. Just like companies, we need to consider biographical depth. We should be looking past "oh, he got elected, so he passes." The CBC and Nelson Star pieces don't pass muster and we'd be lucky if we could write more than a paragraph and an Infobox with the Province article. Doug Mehus (talk) 22:22, 16 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.