Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Clementine cake

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clementine cake[edit]

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Despite being a good article, not a single source has WP:SIGCOV of this specific cake. The majority of sources are recipes which is fine if they're accompanied by significant coverage and discussion of the dish, but there isn't any. The only shred of notability that I'm seeing comes from being a minor plot in a 2013 film and supposedly being an adaption of an ancient Jewish cake. The sources for this second claim are a personal blog (which isn't a reliable source) and the Encyclopedia of Jewish Food which makes no mention of an orange cake that this article claims Clementine cake was adapted from. We need sources that speak about this cake's notability (not just more recipes) and if that doesn't exist, I believe a selective merge to Fruitcake#United States is the best option. BaduFerreira (talk) 20:01, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 21:00, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The claims about the ancient cake appear to be from the New York Times? Valereee (talk) 21:28, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nice catch, I missed that. That source is a recipe on the New York Times cooking website and the entirety of discussion of this cake is as follows: "This dessert, loosely based on a Sephardic orange cake, uses whole clementines, peels and all, for a flavor rich in citrus. The cooking time may seem long, but much of it doesn’t require much attention from the baker. And the first step, reducing the fruit, may be done ahead of time." Nothing in terms of WP:SIGCOV. BaduFerreira (talk) 22:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You also missed that the recipe is connected to an article. The NYT does that with their food writing: they write an article, and then they put the recipe(s) from that article into separate article/s with the main article attached with a "Featured in" link. Valereee (talk) 22:12, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh wow, I didn't realize that at all. Looking at the broader article shows where that earlier blurb came from: "The star of the feast came last: the Clementine Cake (pictured above). Baked by Dawn Datso, a family friend and professional pastry chef, it didn’t come from the book. But the cultural mash-up involved in its creation made it seem supremely appropriate. Years ago, while living in Malaysia, Ms. Datso was browsing in a library and came across a cookbook with some random recipe for Sephardic orange cake. A big fan of clementines, she eventually adapted the cake to feature them". The only WP:SIGCOV that can be pulled from this source is a person adapted a recipe for Sephardic orange cake by adding clementines and made her friend a cake. The baker (Dawn Datso) is described as a professional pastry chef, but I can't find any information about her. This doesn't show that Clementine cake has any notability. BaduFerreira (talk) 22:32, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You've been told twice before this on the talk that not every source used in an article has to represent significant coverage. Other RS can be used to support assertions. Valereee (talk) 22:47, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What sources currently used in this article show significant coverage? There isn't a single source used in this article that has significant coverage of Clementine cake as a notable cake. Three of the sources that you've added (The Guardian, The Sydney Morning Herald, The SF Chronicle) looked good at first, but they're recipes for an Orange & Almond Cake. Also none of them are over WP:100WORDS. BaduFerreira (talk) 22:55, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the Perelman source is quite lengthy. But even the sources you're objecting to for not having enough words -- that's an essay, btw, not policy -- are calling it famous and a classic. They're discussing its ancient roots and that it's a traditional Sephardic passover food. Significant coverage isn't just about wordcount. Sometimes it's about what they're saying and who's saying it. In this case, RS and experts from all over the world are saying it. Valereee (talk) 23:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I've added several more sources, although frankly I don't think this article needed it. The NYT has covered this cake multiple times. The Guardian has covered it. The San Francisco Chronicle. Claudia Roden has covered it. Nigella Lawson has covered it. Joyce Goldstein. It appears to be a cake that has ancient roots, which is always an indicator of notability. I didn't have to look very hard. Valereee (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This nomination gives me a weird feeling. First sources get removed and when they are restored and expanded on, a nomination follows. The Banner talk 23:03, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Enough coverage in the sources found and added by Valeree for a GNG pass. Rupples (talk) 19:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Quick keep per above. on a side note, the GA should be reassessed tho. I feel the article doesn't quite match the standards mainly due to its brief length. X (talk) 22:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.