Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christian Educational Consortium

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Yunshui ^雲_水 09:59, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Christian Educational Consortium

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Christian Educational Consortium (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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No independent sources in article or found (just a few passing mentions of sports teams). Fails WP:NORG.

This is an odd article. It's written as if this were a school, and the organization sort of claims to be a school, but it is not an accredited Kentucky school. The students are all technically home schooled, and the supposed campus at 1500 Alliant Ave, Louisville is actually two days a week of borrowed or rented classroom space at Indiana Wesleyan University. This is an organization which, in effect, provides private tutoring to allow home schooled Christian students to take higher level high school courses that their parents might not be capable of giving them. It also allows them to participate in some group activities such as sports.

I deprodded this 3 months ago pending investigation. I was unable to show its notability (see analysis and sources at Talk:Christian Educational Consortium#What is this group?) and my request for help in finding independent reliable sources to show its notability went unanswered (see Talk:Christian Educational Consortium#Any independent sources about this group?). Meters (talk) 05:29, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Kentucky-related deletion discussions. 94rain ^Talk 06:02, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. 94rain ^Talk 06:02, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:TNT. What is it? A school? An organization? An accrediting body? I can't tell as it's currently written. Bearian (talk) 16:21, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
  • @Bearian: It's not an accredited school. Two days a week of instruction does not meet the the Kentucky school regulations minimum hours of instructions of "no less than the equivalent of 1062 instructional hours in a minimum of 170 instructional days" to be illegible for accreditation as a private school. It's definitely not an accreditation body. All of the students are technically home schooled as shown by the boilerplate letter the group provides to the students' parents to send to their local school boards: "This letter is to inform you that we will home school our children, listed below... Our school is located in our home, at the above address." I don't know what the legal status is in Kentucky, but in a similar situation where I live the government education department simply called the group a private tutoring service for home schooled students. Meters (talk) 22:28, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

References

• Keep This sort of program is roughly comparable to articles for adult folk schools such as John C. Campbell Folk School. This quasi-school includes secondary students and appears to be a feeder for Indiana Wesleyan University. They compete at the secondary level in baseball according to Google News. We presume notability for secondary schools. Although it is not accredited, it's size and association with Indiana Wesleyan University make up for this.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 04:55, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Again, this is not an accredited school, and even if it were the presumption of notability for schools only goes so far as to exempt them from speedy deletion on notability grounds. Per WP:WPSCHOOLS/AG#N schools still have to meet either WP:GNG or WP:NORG. I was unable to show notability, and I gave it three months for other editors to find sources. If you can provide sources to show its notability that's fine, but your assumption hat it is connected to the University of Indiana Wesleyan is not enough to keep the article. Meters (talk) 06:44, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Is there a precedent for other large secondary-including co-op type organizations on WP AfD? If not, we may be setting a precedent with what we do with this one--lets get it right. As for their relationship with the university, you could call them up and ask. What is stated in the article is enough to infer what I stated earlier. It seems that most of the team/extracurricular stuff on Google News is behind a paywall so it is difficult to see how in-depth the coverage is. They are not be accredited, but in 2012-2013 they offered five AP classes, which is more than many smaller public US high schools offer. You cannot offer AP classes without jumping though some certification hoops for them--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 05:41, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
      • So, you're basing your keep on a inference about their relationship with the university (not that I see that affects their notability in any case), and a guess about sources you have not actually seen? RE: precedent, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Indigo Sudbury Campus This was a full time, five day a week private tutoring service for home schooled students (including high school students), with permanent teachers on staff and its own "school" premises. Meters (talk) 06:14, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Yunshui ^雲_水 08:16, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

• Delete. Wikipedia's "presumed notable" is not "inherently notable" and is not absolute; it doesn't override WP:GNG. This article has zero citations; and it was founded in 2001 (so entirely within the world wide web era) yet I can't easily find independent, significant coverage on the web. So even if it were something that Wikipedia usually "presumes" notable, it's rebutted by the utter lack of WP:SIGCOV. Notability is not inherited, so an "association" with some other institution is not sufficient, and it seems like the "association" is that they happen to be allowed some rooms in the "Louisville Education and Conference Center", an Indiana Wesleyan satellite office building 3 hours(!) away from campus, in a different state, mostly used for adult education and also "available for use as conference space by area businesses and organizations." (For completeness, even though it should be moot, an analysis about whether this is really a school by any normal definition: Their website claims "school" and "blended education" and "attend traditional academic classes" without explaining what they think would count as any of that. But, as Meters mentions above, when it comes down to dealing with outsiders, this "school" changes its tune: They tell parents to send a letter to the public school board saying that "we will home school our children" and "our school is located in our home" and referring to the parents as "the school administration" for federal law purposes. I can't find any evidence on the website that their graduations or diplomas are recognized, and the word "accreditation" appears in literally only one place on the website, dealing with dual-enrollment classes at the University of Louisville.) --Closeapple (talk) 22:52, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.