Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Castellior

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to Penmynydd as a sensible ATD. Owen× ☎ 19:24, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Castellior[edit]

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Castellior is just a farm, not a village or hamlet. I have walked past it on the public footpath. There is no intrinsic notability for individual farms. Fails WP:GNG Velella ^{Velella Talk} 00:23, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wales-related deletion discussions. Velella ^{Velella Talk} 00:23, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 01:07, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree it's currently a farm. There's a decent amount of information about the farm and mansion, though - and while it was probably added from a database at some point it looks like it may have been entered into the database because there's at least some evidence Romans had settled there, and at least one book, albeit pseudoscientific, claiming the Druids made a last stand against the Romans there (Uriel's Machine p. 413, but quoting another book with a title that is too long to type out.) So I think there's a good chance an article about the place itself could pass WP:GNG, and there's a small chance an article about the farm could pass WP:GNG, but given this is unsourced and not clearly a locality, I have no suggestion. SportingFlyer T·C 01:24, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This is actually a notable farm. Here are some sources:

Carr, Glenda (2015). "Castellior". Hen Enwau o Ynys Môn. Caernarfon : Gwasg y Bwthyn. p. 101. ISBN 978-1-907424-74-8.
Pritchard, H. (1871). "Copper Cakes, Etc., Castellior, Anglesey". Archaeologia Cambrensis. 2 (5): 51–66. (Discusses two places named "Castellior" on Anglesey, the latter of which is the subject of this article.)
Muckle, P.; Longley, D. (2004). "Excavations at Castellior, Anglesey". Archaeol Wales. 44 (44): 33–42. ("Castellior Farm, Llansadwrn" confirms it's this article's subject, not the other Castellior discussed in the previous source.)
"Castellior Project Introduction: Quantifying the carbon footprint of a lowland beef finishing system: identifying opportunities to reduce greenhouse gas emissions on-farm". Welsh Government - Farming Connect. Retrieved 2024-01-21.
Nurmio, Silva. "Middle Welsh -awr: The Case of the Lost Plural Suffix" (PDF). Studia Celtica. 48 (2014): 139–170. (Contains a detailed etymology of the name on page 156–157.)

So, meets WP:GNG. Goes to show, you can't walk a public footpath in the UK without tripping over something historic. Jfire (talk) 01:54, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- There are hints that there is geology to be had, as well, if it's the farm that the geologists are talking about, which I have not confirmed. Name check at Jones 1875, p. 300, too.
  - Jones, Owen, ed. (1875). "Mon, Ynys". Cymru: yn hanesyddol, parthedegol, a bywgraphyddol (in Welsh). Vol. 2. Glasgow & Edinburgh: Blackie a'i fab.
- Uncle G (talk) 02:28, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 00:55, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or Fold into Penmynydd - I tend to disagree that this meets WP:GNG (or WP:NGEO) based on sources shared by Jfire (talk · contribs) or other references I could find - which are almost all incidental.

My view for each of the sources shared by Jfire:

Carr discusses the etymology of Castellior and lists three hypotheses for how this name came to be. As one page in a 300+ page book dedicated to reviewing every single place name in Anglesey, I don't see this as being a strong sign of notability. The page lists three different names used in the past for the locale, and mentions two people by name in the hypotheses for the place name, but neither appear to have published books on this topic (from a very quick search) which could help establish encyclopedic value . (I was not able as present to access Nurmio's paper, however if the core discussion is regarding etymology, I doubt the contents over these two pages can be significantly different)
Pritchard is very much a passing mention that does not establish notability, with four sentences in total covering Castellior, noting that someone said something was there, but with no proof.
Muckle is a report of archaeological excavations. Again, unless there are findings of note (which there do not appear to be) I don't see how this supports notoriety for an individual article.
The 'Castellior Project' is one of many that the Welsh Government supports. Many of these are named after the farm or locale where they are implemented (Pentre Farm, Cilwrgi Farm, Lower Eyton Farm, Fro Farm, Ffrith Farm... all of these were on the first two pages of listings on the 'Farming Connect' program which includes the 'Castellior Project'). Again, I don't see how this establishes WP:GNG or WP:NGEO level of notability for a self-standing article.

I feel these sources would be better used to add in the Penmynydd article a section regarding possible fortifications near Penmynydd. This section can include sourced discussion on the etymology of Castellior, the lack of findings from archaeological surveys in the area, as well as the potential link to Bryn Eryr. Shazback (talk) 03:57, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 14:17, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the sources listed by Jfire. I am seeing enough to write a small but properly sourced article. A merge to Penmynydd could be considered editorially since there isn'a a huge amount to say but shouldn't be required. Eluchil404 (talk) 02:32, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.