Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Camden Road

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Sandstein 21:15, 26 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Camden Road[edit]

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May not meet the notability guidelines for highways. No reference used in the article. The article is only a single sentence and is not that informative:

“

Camden Road is a main road running from the junction of Camden High Street and Camden Town Underground station up to Holloway Road. It is part of the A503 which continues east as Tollington Road.

”

No third party coverage of the road. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 11:26, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Popular culture-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 11:26, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 11:26, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 11:26, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 11:26, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 11:26, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If this is deemed non-notable then it should be redirected to Camden Road railway station. Thryduulf (talk) 19:33, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've never heard of it and there are no sources currently, but @Andrew Davidson: can probably do something. power~enwiki (π, ν) 03:48, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ritchie333 is probably the best person for roads but I'll make a start. Andrew D. (talk) 09:15, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The nomination is incorrect in that this is the A503 and Wikipedia:Notability (highways) states that "In Great Britain ..., roads that are classified as ... A roads are notable and are suitable for inclusion." There's no separate page for the A503 – just a redirect. Pevsner tells us that it "was laid out in the 1820s" and so it has about two centuries of history now. In London, that's plenty of time to accumulate lots of notable buildings and inhabitants. For example, see Congo on the Camden Road – an interesting account of missionary work emanating from the Baptist chapel there. The Survey of London and the Victoria County History have more details. Overall, the worst case would be merger into some other page such as Camden and so there's no good reason to delete this. Andrew D. (talk) 09:15, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Andrew Davidson, I think it might be better merged into a larger article as a Google search brought up no sources on the topic. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 10:12, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe an article could be created at A503 road and this merged there. Crouch, Swale (talk) 15:00, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Google search, such as the link at the head of this discussion, gives me over half a million results for "camden road" and so it's puzzling that Tyw7 is getting nothing at all. I have made a start on expanding the article and still reckon that this is better than starting afresh. Andrew D. (talk) 16:28, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Andrew Davidson, I don't consider them relevant as most of the top results talk about the station not the road itself. And I don't think they support why the road itself is notable. They talk about properties on the road. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 17:29, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Several GAs, including Oxford Street, Regent Street and Leicester Square spend a considerable amount of their respective articles talking about properties on the streets, which is beneficial as if those don't pass notability for a standalone article, we can write about them there instead. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 22:30, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ritchie333, By properties, I mean listings like https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/london/camden-road-nw1/ and https://www.booking.com/hotel/gb/spacious-apartment-1-min-from-camden-town-station.en-gb.html

The first few pages of the Google search yielded results such as http://www.londontown.com/LondonStreets/camden_road_dbc.html, which is common on just about any London Street. It doesn't state why /this/ street is notable.

If we include listings such as these, the article would turn into a classified ad.

To my knowledge, there isn't a historic significance to the road, and initially, I thought this wasn't an A-road. I thought it was just a mundane London road that sits between two A-roads. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 01:19, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Just because all the sources needed to expand the article are old and paper-based, doesn't mean we should throw the article in the bin. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 22:27, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ritchie333, when I nominated it, web searches brought up only mundane or passing by references to the road. I still think that the road barely scrapes by the notability criteria. I think it should be merged into another larger article. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 01:21, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep When I looked at this yesterday, I would have said "Redirect to Camden Road railway station without prejudice against re-creating if sources can be found to expand beyond a couple of lines of text", but (fortunately?) I got sucked down a rabbit hole about Nikolaus Pevsner and the Pevsner guides (Do people in England generally know about him? I grew up in Ireland and never heard of him until yesterday. Fascinating fellow.) and by the time I was done it was already time for bed. Full credit to Ritchie333 for fixing this one and a fine WP:TROUT for Tyw7 for making a "notability" argument when "The article as is is a useless content fork and should be redirected somewhere else" would have been perfectly fine -- it's OP arguments like that that give so-called "deletionists" a bad name (at least among so-called "inclusionists"). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:42, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note that I'm not certain this is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and I actually still suspect the title should be redirected to the railway station and this article moved to Camden Road (road) or something less silly sounding. The fact that web searches apparently don't bring up anything worthwhile would seem to indicate that for people who don't live there the railway station is more likely what they are looking for (and the relative lengths of our articles before this AFD artificially expanded the road article would seem to support that). That's a matter for an RM, though. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:46, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hijiri88, well I initially thought it had failed the road notability, not realizing that it's an A-road!

The useless fork could be considered a "weak" argument.

As mentioned above, a Google search of the road brought up more articles on the station on the road than the road itself. It has its usual assortment of businesses, none of which would be notable.

The N-highway seem to indicate that ALL A-roads are notable, which is another argument on its own. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 01:52, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The useless fork could be considered a "weak" argument. Well, that would depend. If you really want to see the page deleted and wiped from Wikipedia, then it's obviously a non-argument. However, since the railway station article isn't going anywhere, the title would need to exist anyway, so you might as well have just redirected and if someone reverted you with a similarly weak argument like "They're different topics", AFD would be the place to come, and "useless content fork" is actually a strong argument if what you're looking for is a redirect.

All that being said, you seem to be retracting your initial !vote, so is it safe close this as "speedy keep"?

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:59, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hijiri88, weeelll I still think there's nothing notable about this stretch of road to merit its own article. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 02:15, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep whilst referencing needs to be improved, I found more than just passing references when looking in Scholar. See for example here. Difficultly north (talk) Simply south alt. 12:25, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.