Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Calvary Church (Naperville)
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete - there is a strong consensus to delete. The assertions made by the keep advocates did not result in any notability being established on the actual article.Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:13, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Calvary Church (Naperville)[edit]
- Calvary Church (Naperville) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Notability not asserted or established for this nondescript church in Naperville, IL. Fails all tests of notability. wikipediatrix 03:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per nom. MER-C 03:33, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete un-encyclopedic drivel. The Crying Orc 08:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Churchcruft Lurker oi! 11:41, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep and merge into Calvary Church (Naperville, Illinois). This is not a non-descript church. It is a "mega-church" that has recieved much attention - Google search turns up many references to its size and influence. Deli nk 16:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Is there some policy which stipulates that 'mega churches' are de facto notable? If not, then the above is not an argument. If so, that is also problematic, because a round-tower church in Suffolk with a congregation of 10 (or none!) is surely more notable because of its architectural and historical uniqueness than a modern 'mega church' of which there are thousands. Moreover, the 'mega church' argument entrenches bias towards evangelical/pentecostals, as opposed to more traditional denominations which do not use 'mega churches' (like the CofE with its little, quaint, historical round-tower churches). The Crying Orc 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Wikipedia has yet to decide for itself what even definitively constitutes a "megachurch", so no, there's no valid reason for anyone to automatically vote keep just because something calls itself one. Just because they have a huge building is meaningless: huge shopping malls get deleted as non-notable every week here. wikipediatrix 16:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Hmmm...it is worrying that this 'mega-church' argument is popping up everywhere, then. The Crying Orc 16:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I see I need to clarify a bit. I haven't heard the "mega-church" argument before, so I don't know what you are referring to. Why shouldn't one of the largest churches in one of the largest cities in Illinois be notable?A church with ~5000 members[1] dwarfs most schools which are considered notable almost by default. (Ironically, it appears the church runs a school, so it possible that Wikipedia would keep an article on the school, but not the church? Just a curious thought.) Also, I don't find the argument about bias towards evangelical/pentecostal all that relevant. If one denomination has churches that are on average larger than those of another denomonation, those individual churches are going to be inherently more influential and notable. Wikipedia is simply more likely to take note of something that is "bigger" no matter what the context. Can anyone point me to discussion of this "mega-church argument that's popping up everywhere"? I'm curious about what others may have said. Deli nk 20:17, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- If you look at AfDs for churches (there are a few ongoing) the argument that thousands of attendees=notable pops up all the time. A high school with ~5000 members would be notable, a church is not as there are a lot of churches that size. Size does not equal influence, indeed a suburban megachurch may have a lot less influence on its community than say a traditional parish church, as the megachurch could largely cater to those who attend. Ted Haggard's church, being politically influential, would be a notable megachurch, a similarly sized-church may not be. And where does this idea that schools are considered notable by default come from? Schools are nominated for deletion as often as churches. Lurker oi! 15:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I see I need to clarify a bit. I haven't heard the "mega-church" argument before, so I don't know what you are referring to. Why shouldn't one of the largest churches in one of the largest cities in Illinois be notable?A church with ~5000 members[1] dwarfs most schools which are considered notable almost by default. (Ironically, it appears the church runs a school, so it possible that Wikipedia would keep an article on the school, but not the church? Just a curious thought.) Also, I don't find the argument about bias towards evangelical/pentecostal all that relevant. If one denomination has churches that are on average larger than those of another denomonation, those individual churches are going to be inherently more influential and notable. Wikipedia is simply more likely to take note of something that is "bigger" no matter what the context. Can anyone point me to discussion of this "mega-church argument that's popping up everywhere"? I'm curious about what others may have said. Deli nk 20:17, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Hmmm...it is worrying that this 'mega-church' argument is popping up everywhere, then. The Crying Orc 16:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Wikipedia has yet to decide for itself what even definitively constitutes a "megachurch", so no, there's no valid reason for anyone to automatically vote keep just because something calls itself one. Just because they have a huge building is meaningless: huge shopping malls get deleted as non-notable every week here. wikipediatrix 16:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Megachurch, macrochurch, microchurch, or nanochurch, I can't find any press coverage about it, and no cites to show notability are provided in the article. Edison 18:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. A church with 10,000+ members, some significant impact on cultural or current events would be notable. This article fails to demonstrate any notability at all. NeoFreak 18:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep and merge into Calvary Church (Naperville, Illinois). There definitely needs to be a merger. The church is one of the top churches in terms of size in the Assemblies of God fellowship, and one of the largest churches in greater Chicago. When in doubt, keep. Realkyhick 04:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete -- NN godcruft, and virtually no content in the article. Pete Fenelon 01:34, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Calvary Church (Naperville, Illinois) has also been nominated for deletion. The articles has more content than this, but the same concerns regarding notability apply. Please contribute to the debate, linked to above. Lurker oi! 10:56, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.