Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Breckbill Bible College

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Evangelical Methodist Church of America. Consensus seems to indicate a redirect as preferable to deletion, since it's possible more sources might be found to meet GNG or SNGs. BusterD (talk) 13:09, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Breckbill Bible College[edit]

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Breckbill Bible College (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet WP:ORGCRIT as lacking "significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." Currently has no secondary sources whatsoever. AusLondonder (talk) 23:07, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Organizations, Christianity, and Virginia. AusLondonder (talk) 23:07, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Education and Schools. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:18, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. There are books that discuss Breckbill Bible College, such as the Encyclopedia of Christianity in the United States, Volume 5, and the Encyclopedia of American Religions. The college is well known in the conservative Wesleyan world and rather than delete the article, I would recommend that it be expanded. 97.70.170.255 (talk) 01:27, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have just looked at the first book mention. It is literally a single sentence.... AusLondonder (talk) 05:36, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jclemens: What part of WP:NSCHOOL is met here? AusLondonder (talk) 03:48, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The key difference is that the stricter ORGCRIT standards do not apply to schools; GNG will suffice. What did your BEFORE turn up? Jclemens (talk) 04:26, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure you've read NSCHOOL because it states "All universities, colleges and schools, including high schools, middle schools, primary (elementary) schools, and schools that only provide a support to mainstream education must either satisfy the notability guidelines for organizations (i.e., this page), the general notability guideline, or both. For-profit educational organizations and institutions are considered commercial organizations and must satisfy those criteria." AusLondonder (talk) 05:34, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And Jclemens seems to have summarised that quotation (which contains the word "or") very well. What makes you question whether that editor has read NSCHOOL? Phil Bridger (talk) 13:17, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm currently reconsidering this. The school does not appear to have a working web presence, and I have been unable to find it in any of the various Bible college accreditation organizations. I'm thinking it may fail V. Jclemens (talk) 22:43, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Per WP:ORGSIG:
No company or organization is considered inherently notable. No organization is exempt from this requirement, no matter what kind of organization it is, including schools. If the individual organization has received no or very little notice from independent sources, then it is not notable simply because other individual organizations of its type are commonly notable or merely because it exists
YordleSquire (talk) 16:26, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or Merge (alternate to deletion) to the parent article Evangelical Methodist Church of America --or-- a Wesleyan world article, where encyclopedia notability is not an issue. Primary sources do not advance notability. I could not find reliable, independent, significate, secondary coverage to advance notability. See: WP:ORGSIG, WP:INHERITORG, and WP:ORGCRIT. -- Otr500 (talk) 00:10, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. WP:NSCHOOL applies here. Also, the bible college has a profile at the education department.[1] Knox490 (talk) 00:24, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Knox490: NSCHOOL states that "All universities, colleges and schools, including high schools, middle schools, primary (elementary) schools, and schools that only provide a support to mainstream education must either satisfy the notability guidelines for organizations (i.e., this page), the general notability guideline, or both. For-profit educational organizations and institutions are considered commercial organizations and must satisfy those criteria." AusLondonder (talk) 01:49, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You've already copied that. Other people have no problem reading and understanding the word "or", which means that this doesn't need to meet WP:ORGCRIT if it passes the general notability guideline. Why do you seem to? Phil Bridger (talk) 08:03, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The problem being it doesn't pass either and a link to a listing on educationdepartment.org certainly doesn't prove otherwise. AusLondonder (talk) 12:27, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That may well be true, but it's no good banging on about WP:ORGCRIT as if that is the only available path to notability, and repeatedly pasting things to this discussion that agree with the person you are replying to. I can't be bothered to look for sources for an American school at the moment, but just tell us why you consider this to fail the general notability guideline, i.e. tell us the results of your WP:BEFORE. Phil Bridger (talk) 13:50, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Knox490 argument. Lokotim (talk) 17:38, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I'm not seeing coverage to meet WP:NSCHOOL. 2 hits in google news, and 1 line mentions in google books. LibStar (talk) 00:39, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: An analysis of sources would be helpful in this discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, voorts (talk/contributions) 01:09, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: For source eval.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 05:12, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. Only the two existing book references count for anything. I can see part/most(?) of one, and it doesn't look substantial enough, so GNG isn't satisfied as far as I can tell. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:11, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I found what seems to be a book(?) on the life of the college's founder. That would likely have coverage of the institution. BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This appears to be the Google Books link (in English), which shows Manahath Press as the publisher and Max McCall as the author. Is there any evidence that the author and/or publisher are reliable? Left guide (talk) 08:11, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The subject is mentioned in reliable tertiary sources as noted above. Raymond3023 (talk) 15:23, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NotAGenious (talk) 07:02, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Created with templates {{ORGCRIT assess table}} and {{ORGCRIT assess}}
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor.
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Secondary? Overall value toward ORGCRIT
Melton's Encyclopedia of American Religions [1]: 287  Yes Yes No The entry is about the Evangelical Methodist Church of America, and all it says of this facility is "Educational Facilities: Breckbill Bible College, Max Meadows, Virginia." That is it. – Encyclopaedias are technically tertiary, but that would be good enough if coverage were significant
Encyclopedia of Christianity in the United States. [2]: 832  Yes Yes No Caveat: I had to use google books preview for this as I don't have access to the volume. However, Google books only shows one hit for Breckbill, on page 832. All the entry seems to say is as above, the EMCA operates Breckbill Bible College in Max Meadows, Virginia. – Encyclopaedias are technically tertiary, but that would be good enough if coverage were significant
breckbillbiblecollege.org [3] No This is their own website Yes They would be reliable for telling us about themselves Yes All about the Bible College No Clearly they are a primary source for themselves
isainet.com [4] No Statement from the Academic president, email Manahath@..., and copyright the Bible College. Remember that email address. – No reason to doubt that someone from the college is reliable about the college, although the URL just places this in someone's user space. – Many editors would say three paragraphs are significant. I don't see it is really enough to be writing an encyclopaedic page from though. No It is a statement from the Academic president of the college. That is a primary source.
edutrek.com [5] Almost certainly not independent. It is a directory listing, and I expect that has been placed. However, I don't know that is the case so I'll leave that as unclear. Yes It's just an address but I do not doubt reliability. No Two sentences and an address. This is a directory listing This question is moot. I would say it is primary but the source fails on significance anyway.
The Life and Ministry of William Wallace Breckbill No This book was found in the deletion discussion. Per Left guide the publisher is Manahath Press. Now, recall the email address above. This is a small publishing arm of the college. Yes I expect the college is reliable about themselves I have not read the book. It is likely to be yes. Unclear without reading the book, but as it is not independent, it is already ruled out.
So on this basis, I think we are clearly at no notability for a page, but the way it is handled in the two encylopaedia references is the way this encylopaedia should handle it too. Breckbill bilble college is the educational arm of the EMCA and should be (and is) mentioned on that page. This page should redirect there. I hope other !voters can indicate whether they are content with this proposed WP:ATD.

References

  1. ^ Melton, J. Gordon (2003). Encyclopedia of American Religions. Gale. p. 396. ISBN 978-0-7876-6384-1.
  2. ^ Kurian, George Thomas; Lamport, Mark A. (10 November 2016). Encyclopedia of Christianity in the United States. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 832. ISBN 978-1-4422-4432-0.
  3. ^ "Breckbill Bible College - Home". breckbillbiblecollege.org. Archived from the original on 16 January 2014. Retrieved 12 February 2014.
  4. ^ "Breckbill Bible College". isainet.com. Archived from the original on 8 October 2013. Retrieved 12 February 2014.
  5. ^ "Breckbill Bible College". edutrek.com. Archived from the original on 12 February 2014. Retrieved 12 February 2014.

Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 10:49, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding not having access to Encyclopedia of Christianity in the United States, I found a copy of the book from Internet Archive here, which confirms this is a passing mention. Cunard (talk) 12:01, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to EMCA for reasons cited above. Dclemens1971 (talk) 01:59, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Because there are no original or secondary sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GQO (talk • contribs) 08:34, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Because there are no secondary sources(GQO (talk) 08:40, 5 April 2024 (UTC))[reply]
  • Redirect to Evangelical Methodist Church of America (with the history preserved under the redirect) per Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Alternatives to deletion. I agree with Sirfurboy's analysis of the sources as not providing significant coverage. I did not find significant coverage in reliable sources in my searches for sources. A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow editors to selectively merge any content that can be reliably sourced to the target article. A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow the redirect to be undone if significant coverage in reliable sources is found in the future. Cunard (talk) 12:01, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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