Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brandon Kleyla

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Indyfans and the Quest for Fortune and Glory. Mkativerata (talk) 05:56, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Brandon Kleyla[edit]

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Actor/director who might reach Wikipedia's notability threshold someday but isn't quite there yet. The article was tagged as a BLP-proposed deletion but that was removed after the addition of a couple of references. I disagree with that move: one of the references is to the subject's website while the other is to a fairly shallow interview on an Indiana Jones fansite so neither qualify as reliable sources. I found two other interviews online ([1] and [2]) and here also, I don't believe this should be considered significant coverage in reliable sources. Mr. Kleyla's career as an actor is not significant since all his roles were very minor (some are in fact uncredited). He has also directed a feature film (The Road to Canyon Lake) which, as he put it himself, was shot on a very small budget. As far as I can tell, the film was not distributed in theatres. He has also directed a feature documentary about Indiana Jones fandom which, again as far as I can tell, was never widely distributed. All in all, the subject fails to meet both the general notability requirement and the actor-specific one. Pichpich (talk) 22:34, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:57, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steven Zhang ^{The clock is ticking....} 00:16, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Hardly someone will compose such information for any reason. Common sense is good enough evidence. If someone will be interested in person - let them get information. Some more refs and material - it will be fine. (talk) 18:03, 5 November 2011 (UTC))[reply]
- One cannot compromise on fundamental policies of Wikipedia. We do not publish material that cannot be attributed to reliable published sources. Pichpich (talk) 22:43, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The article will definitely benefit from a sandblasting... but it's sourcable. For example, his 2008 fanfilm Indyfans and the Quest for Fortune and Glory has screened and received coverage[3][4] and informaton about this fellow's background can be gleaned from and sourced by such coverage. His work as a Disney Imagineer does not catch the eye of the press, and I agree that his career is short. But as the coverage of his film work just barely tweaks at WP:CREATIVE, perhaps a solution would be to suggest the creation of an article about his film to which this BLP might be partialy merged and redirected. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 04:53, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think this comes anywhere close to what we need in terms of in-depth coverage in secondary sources. What you're pointing to is extremely weak coverage that's barely concerned with Kleyla himself. One of the reasons why we very much prefer coverage focused on the subject itself is that tangential things are never properly fact-checked. Based, perhaps, on the sources, our article writes that "Kleyla then went on to star as Bobby Fricker in the film Now and Then". I'm not sure where that came from but Kleyla certainly did not star in that movie as anyone who's seen it will tell you. According to IMDb (which is usually pretty good with such things), the role is in fact uncredited and it's at the very least clear from Now and Then (film) that his part was very minor. Now maybe this is taking the cue from this USA Today article [5] about the Indiana Jones movie which writes that Kleyla starred in Gods and Monsters. Under any reasonable definition of "starring", this is demonstrably incorrect and I'm pretty sure the USA Today would have fact-checked this properly had the article been a profile of Kleyla. Pichpich (talk) 06:23, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I'm not saying at all that the fellow passes WP:ENT or WP:CREATIVE, only that sources that might be used to creative a stub article on a minor film contain information about this fellow's work. I'm a believer in WP:WIP and WP:IMPROVE, and try to seek reasonable alternatives that build the encyclopedia. Toward his fanfilm... when we guage it against coverage of a major studio blockbuster, his film barely tweaks the meter... but while a minor indie project, it does have coverage that address the project directly and in detail. Sure Kleyla fails WP:PEOPLE... but a case can be made for his minor film meeting WP:Notability (film), even if just barely, and that unwritten article could include some information about the filmmaker being contextually included. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 14:39, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - That seems a-ok to me. And the fact that this guy fails N, etc., now doesn't mean new coverage can't get him over the hump in the future, of course. Novaseminary (talk) 18:28, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ (per below, now fine with redirect) Even assuming it could be verified, I don't see anything that meets WP:NACTOR or WP:DIRECTOR. The coverage of the one documentary doesn't seem to meet DIRECTOR #3, nor does it seem to qualify as a "well-known work, or collective body of work". And the coverage of him generally is not substantial enough to meet WP:BASIC. Novaseminary (talk) 07:24, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- No disagreement about deletion from me, as his short career fails WP:ENT, and the coverage for his 2008 film barely nudges WP:DIRECTOR. My comment above only addresses possibilities that could help build the encyclopedia. . Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 14:39, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to the new article Indyfans and the Quest for Fortune and Glory, the one place where it currently makes sense for this fellow to have a sourced mention. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 22:49, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Redirecting "Brandon Kleyla" to Indyfans and the Quest for Fortune and Glory seems reasonable. I am not a huge proponent of redirecting people's names to articles about group projects like films (group members redirecting to band names or the like, though, seems fine and different somehow); the search function will bring up the article anyway without the implication that the person is so much associated with the project. But this film really is mostly his (written, directed, edited, etc.), so the redirect wouldn't be misleading or do any other harm. I would still delete the current article first, though, and then create the redirect because so much of this is unsourced, possible BLP material (though not negative, it doesn't seem). Novaseminary (talk) 03:42, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm basically ok with that compromise. (See Michael's talk page for what still bugs me) I also agree that the article should be deleted first and then redirected. I suppose I could retract my nomination but that wouldn't allow the delete-then-redirect option, right? Pichpich (talk) 04:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.