Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Borkonyha Winekitchen

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Participants determined that the sources do not provide in-depth significant coverage about the restaurant to established notability. ✗plicit 23:39, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Borkonyha Winekitchen[edit]

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Lack of independent coverage in RS. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:39, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Food and drink, Companies, and Hungary. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 22:49, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The Michelin review is RS. Andy Hayler appears to be a professional reviewer. So does the reviewer for Offbeat Budapest. The Amberlyn Suite Hotel is probably not an RS. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 22:55, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – the sources do not pass WP:CORPDEPTH. The Michelin source provides no information that that is not trivial or incidental coverage, and it provides no deep or significant coverage that provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization. This is relatively obvious due to the fact that no part of it can be used in a Wikipedia article (meaning it's entirely trivial).

Michelin source:

This unassuming-looking restaurant sits not far from the Basilica, and while its traditional dining room may not promise all that much, to pass it by would be a mistake. The kitchen here sources top-class ingredients, treats them with the utmost respect and allows them to shine. Subtle Hungarian influences run throughout dishes which are well-conceived and skilfully executed, and have a notable intensity of flavour. Wines are key here too: they offer 100 labels, including around a quarter by the glass.

The Andy Hayler source is a WP:Self-published review posted on his website (too long to write down here) and also consists of trivial coverage that does not prove there is "deep or significant coverage," focusing mostly on the food and insignificantly on the actual venue, it's history, it's current operators, a neutral account of its cultural significance, etc. Nythar (💬-🍀) 23:09, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The Hungarian Wikipedia has an article on the restaurant's executive chef (hu:Sárközi Ákos), which appears to include some Hungarian language coverage of the restaurant, I don't speak Hungarian, however, and so am unable to evaluate the sources properly. From a quick search I found a full length piece in Reuter's about the head chef [1], and I found a few other bits of coverage, e.g. it has an entry in CNN Travel's list of top Budapest restaurants [2], it appears in eater.com's list of top Budapest restaurants [3] and it also gets a mention in the new york time's "36 hours in Budapest" [4]. I would be surprised if this restaurant really isn't notable, given that a Michelin star is one of the most prestigious awards in the restaurant industry. 192.76.8.86 (talk) 23:45, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Only one of the sources in the chef's Hungarian Wikipedia article focuses a bit on the restaurant 1, but even that's an interview that is made up entirely of the chef's comments, making it very WP:PRIMARY and not WP:INDEPENDENT. This other article in Hungarian refers to him being a "Michelin-starred chef," with no actual comments or coverage of the restaurant. All the other sources in the article focus on the chef. The English-language sources you've linked to here fail WP:SIGCOV. The restaurant isn't notable. Nythar (💬-🍀) 23:54, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree that this [5] fails WP:SIGCOV. While it is partly interview questions there is also a significant amount of reporting there. 192.76.8.86 (talk) 00:08, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The source focuses entirely on him, the chef; "Borkonyha" is mentioned only once in the text of the article. It doesn't focus on the restaurant. Just because he works at the restaurant doesn't mean the restaurant is notable. Nythar (💬-🍀) 00:10, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but have you actually read that article or are you just doing a ctrl+F? There are multiple paragraphs in that piece that directly talk about the restaurant, the entire piece is framed around him getting ready for service at Borkonyha and the entire focus of the piece is his style of cooking which won him the Michelin star. How on earth is coverage of the food and Chefs not focused on the restaurant? 192.76.8.86 (talk) 00:19, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's why I said the English-language sources fail SIGCOV above. Reuters' coverage is trivial, and doesn't go in depth. "The stylish bistro, opened nearly four years ago, serves about 150 diners per night and could barely keep up with a surge in demand since receiving the posh award in March, the third restaurant to be recognized with a Michelin star in Budapest." That is the only part of the article that mentions the restaurant other than the interview answers (which are not WP:INDEPENDENT of the subject). This isn't enough to establish notability per WP:CORPDEPTH, which states that there must be in-depth coverage of the restaurant, not a minor mention. Nythar (💬-🍀) 00:28, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[ec] It's useless for CORPDEPTH as an interview. The statements come from the chef. The only coverage of the restaurant there that counts is "The stylish bistro, opened nearly four years ago, serves about 150 diners per night and could barely keep up with a surge in demand since receiving the posh award in March, the third restaurant to be recognized with a Michelin star in Budapest." —Alalch E. 00:31, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This is clearly one of a series of "Michelin star means notability" articles created by Jack4576. A Michelin star can be taken to strongly indicate that there is some significant coverage, but doesn't guarantee it. There's no irrebuttable presumption of notability of this sort. All of the sources that I'm able to find on the internet fundamentally fail WP:CORPDEPTH. —Alalch E. 23:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per Nythar and Alalch E. The coverage is patently trivial and and it's all in WP:NOTGUIDE territory anyway. XAM2175 ^(T) 02:33, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Arbcom has ruled that articles containing stupidity such as The plates at the restaurant have been described as "colorful", and "artistic" are automatically presumed to cover nonnotable topics. E Eng 11:00, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per all the imaginable policies. Today we have all Michelin restaurants, tomorrow we'll have all places ever mentioned in any Lonely Planet guide, and so on, endless. To better illustrate the notability bar, let's keep in mind that the community decided to delete an article about a USD 5-billion Nasdaq-listed global corporation with 28,000 staff members and offices in 80+ countries for being non-notable.[6] — kashmīrī ^TALK 13:40, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.