Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bobby Allen (basketball)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:07, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bobby Allen (basketball)[edit]

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Doesn't seem notable. A quick google search didn't reveal much. Λuα ^{(Operibus anteire)} 00:41, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Basketball-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 00:49, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 00:49, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:54, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Minor player with little national coverage. Atrian (talk) 18:39, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Can you please clarify what "minor player" means, specifically as a reason for deletion? Jrcla2 (talk) 20:52, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per NBASKETBALL, specifically #1 which ends "or a similar major professional sports league." Allen played in the highest league in the Philippines, which may not sound impressive to people who don't know international basketball, but the Philippine Basketball Association is a notable league which has been accepted in previous discussions to qualify as a "similar" major league. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:59, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete; a basketball player, no evidence of notability. WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844 (talk) 20:43, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- So playing in the PBA doesn't qualify as evidence of notability? Jrcla2 (talk) 20:51, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - Note to closing admin: User:WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844 is the editor who nominated clearly-notable Kevin Barker for deletion without any justification other than "not even close to being notable." This editor needs to brush up on notability standards and actually cite reasons for deletion. The above "no evidence of notability" is a throwaway statement which is actually untrue; Bobby Allen's article does assert reasons for notability. Whether or not those reasons are valid is what should be discussed here. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:07, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There are numerous basketball players on Wikipedia who played only in the PBA; Allen was also a Canadian National Team member, was a leading score for team as well, had a long overseas career. He is a legend in Toronto, considered one of the best high school player in Canada. Also he constantly contributes to the local development with his clinic and helping the ABS league - new and only organized youth league in Canada — Preceding unsigned comment added by Corben04 (talk • contribs) 03:17, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 02:53, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, T C N7JM 04:44, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep due to participation in professional league and Canadian National team, per NBASKETBALL. NewAccount4Me (talk) 05:16, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete - I held off commenting until I was able to research this case a bit. The way I see it, he "almost" meets notability standards a few times. He was a very good JC player, but that doesn't make him notable. He was a good player on a very low profile college team, but doesn't seem to meet GNG based on his college career. He played a year in the PBA, but that league isn't comparable to those that bestow notability IMO. He played for the Canadian national team, but the most significant tournament I can verify he competed in was the 1996 FIBA Americas tournament, which doesn't bestow notability (no Olympics, no FIBA World Cup). The PBA season is the only pro season I can verify from independent sources (ie - NOT his basketball academy website). So where do the others come from? I see an entry for "Madrid," but he didn't play for Real Madrd (which would have made him notable). Seems to me that a bunch of "almost notables" doesn't make a subject notable. Just my 2 cents. Rikster2 (talk) 15:11, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per NBASKETBALL. It appears that he had success in high school and junior college, played for the Canadian national team in the bronze medal game, at the 1995 FIBA Tournament of the Americas, and played professionally in several leagues, including the PBA. Looks notable to me. Blackjays1 (talk) 06:32, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per NBASKETBALL. "similar major professional sports league." PBA must qualify, he played 3 seasons with two different teams. Corben04 (talk) 23:34, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- You can't !vote twice - especially as the creator of the article, Corben04. Rikster2 (talk) 11:33, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - I've striked his second !vote, and I'm a supporter of keeping this article. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:33, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - Comment If the article is written as a stub and with primary sources, it is not notability Jrcla2. The articles I have created under Ashbeckjonathan, most of them had no notability. Even still some of the articles I have created are primary sources. WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844 (talk) 03:11, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      - The Bobby Allen Skills Academy website can be used a supporting reference, not as a primary one, to which I agree. However, this Eurobasket link qualifies and it shows he played in the PBA (N:BASKETBALL threshold met). Being a stub, by the way, has zero impact on notability. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:13, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        Clarification PBA meeting the threshold for N:BASKETBALL is an opinion not a fact. As quoted earlier, the phrase is "comparable league" to those for which notability is presumed (ACB Spain, Lega Serie A Italy, NBL Australia, Euroleague). Not saying you were suggesting otherwise Jrcla2 (I know your opinion is that PBA is comparable), just pointing out that this is open for debate (and IMO may be the point that really determines if this guy is notable). Rikster2 (talk) 14:18, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        I agree that's probably the make-or-break point of the AfD as well. I'm not going to lose any sleep if this does get deleted, but I do think he passes notability guidelines. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:10, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.