Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bob Tuke

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Despite relist, no delete !voters revisited their !vote after more sources were presented. SoWhy 15:19, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Bob Tuke[edit]

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Bob Tuke (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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No coverage outside of failed U.S. Senate candidacy. Never held public office. Fails notability guidelines: WP:N, WP:NPOL, WP:GNG. Redditaddict69 13:59, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nominating statement makes it clear that no WP:BEFORE search was run. Tuke has has been in news regularly and frequently since the 1990s. His activities written about in several books.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:53, 30 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 14:05, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 14:05, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 14:05, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Tennessee-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 14:05, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - One of three refs has been re-purposed; I deleted the ref. Fails WP:SOLDIER and WP:GNG.--Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 14:20, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per WP:NPOL. The fact that he received coverage in multiple feature articles in reliable sources in separate instances as the party chairman and a senate candidate gives him the required notability. Teemu08 (talk) 15:13, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, nothing remarkable or notable, per GNG. Trivial. Kierzek (talk) 17:59, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:NPOLITICIAN failure. Number 57 16:20, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Tired of these non-notable American would-be politicians. Fails WP:SOLDIER and WP:NPOL. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:09, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete contrary to what is claimed above, the coverage does not rise to the level to show notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:04, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete fails WP:NPOL. SportingFlyer talk 03:01, 26 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. As always, unelected candidates for office are not handed an automatic inclusion freebie just for having their name on the ballot — they have to win the election, not just run in it, to be presumed notable as a politician. But this makes no other strong claim of preexisting notability for other reasons that would have gotten him an article independently of his candidacy. And no, the fact that some degree of campaign coverage exists does not get a candidate over WP:GNG all by itself, as Teemu08 wrongly claims above, because every candidate in every election everywhere can always show some degree of campaign coverage — to make a candidate notable on pure GNG grounds without winning the election first or having standing prior notability for other reasons, the campaign coverage has to explode to a degree way out of proportion with what other candidates could also show, as in Christine O'Donnell or Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. But this isn't showing any evidence that Tuke's candidacy is anywhere near that high bar of specialness. Bearcat (talk) 15:02, 26 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Leaning Keep: Here's a profile that ran in The Chattanoogan years before Tuke ran for office. [Clement Names Bob Tuke As State Finance Chairman. And some crocodile tears form Matthew Continetti in the Weekly Standard during Kerry v. Bust, 2004: "On August 11, for example, Bob Tuke, the Tennessee state chair of Veterans for Kerry, told a Nashville radio station that...." He was a very active Dem. before he ran, and also active in civic affairs. In the 1990s he was President of the American Academy of Adoption Attorneys, an active, national organization back then because adoption laws were being reformed nationwide. He was widely interviewed on the topic, intensely interviewed in states like Florida that had major adoption Law battles. (Apologizing for using a paywalled Proquest news archive search.) More to the point is his activity in reforming Tennessee Adoption law. He is one of three individuals credited with getting the new law passed (Heartfelt lobby effort moves adoption rights reform toward passage: Paula Wade The Commercial Appeal Nashville Bureau. The Commercial Appeal; Memphis, Tenn. [Memphis, Tenn]22 May 1995: A.1. :"Rep. Joe Fowlkes (D-Cornersville), sponsor of the bill in the House. He readily admits the lobbying of Jackson adoptee Caprice East, adoption activist Denny Glad of Memphis and Nashville lawyer Bob Tuke have sold the bill to his colleagues.", and more similar. Also: He's an attorney and had a central role drafting the new law.(Judge bars opening of adoption records; Privacy concerns hold up Tenn. law: [Final Edition] Paula Wade and Shirley Downing The Commercial Appeal. The Commercial Appeal; Memphis, Tenn. [Memphis, Tenn]27 June 1996: A.1.; Ruling makes law a model, says backer of open adoption files: [Final Edition]From Staff and Wire Reports. The Commercial Appeal; Memphis, Tenn. [Memphis, Tenn]25 Aug 1996: B.1.; COURT OK'S OPENING RECORDS OF ADOPTION IN TENN. LAW TRIES TO WEIGH RIGHTS, JUDGES SAY: [Final Edition] Shirley Downing The Commercial Appeal. The Commercial Appeal; Memphis, Tenn. [Memphis, Tenn]12 Feb 1997: A.1.) and more similar. In addition, there was a good deal of civic leader coverage, some in non-Tennessee papers like Atlanta Journal Constitution. He was chairman of the committee that approved the plan to hire Robert A. M. Stern and build the $80 million Nashville Public Library.(Chamber board casts lot for libraries; Ward, Getahn. Nashville Banner; Nashville, Tenn. [Nashville, Tenn]11 June 1997: A.5. "The task force... its chairman, Bob Tuke."E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:51, 29 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • If this could all be added into the article then I see this potentially not being deleted completely. WP:TNT could be enacted. This could be merged with the Kerry campaign. I see a lot of places this could go, but I don't think Keep is one of them. He was active, but the coverage isn't national. I bet a lot of state campaign chairs who haven't held any other office aren't on Wikipedia for the same reason; fails WP:GNG. How many local people like Tuke are recognized nationwide? Redditaddict69 14:05, 29 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • He did get national press as an expert on adoption, search "Bob Tuke" + adoption .E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:11, 29 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • That source doesn't appear to be too widely recognized, unless I'm looking at the wrong one. I'm still in favor of deletion. Just because he known stuff on adoption, helped run a state campaign, and chaired a state party doesn't make him notable since he was never elected. Redditaddict69 17:41, 29 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
searches on "Bob Tuke" + adoption in good new archived, or - to a lesser extent - in gNews bring up many articles where journalists interview and cite him on adoption law. It seems to have been a hot topic is several states around the turn of the century. He was a go-to expert.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:46, 29 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep per E.M.Gregory and hope someone expands the article accordingly. While I still prefer to see a good article with greater focus on the subject the article, there's enough sources with moderate depth and multiple viewpoints that we can produce a multifaceted article. Daask (talk) 21:28, 29 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep this [1] Tennessee layer publication documents his role in writing the adoption law. He is also mentioned in several books, A Paler Shade of Red: The 2008 Presidential Election in the South (University of Arkansas Press, 2010) sources his roles as Chair of the Democratic Party and of the Obama campaign in Tennessee [2], some pushback on Tuke in Between Barack and a Hard Place: Racism and White Denial in the Age of Obama (small, but real, publishing House in San Francisco)[3] by Tim Wise. and more. I think there's just enough pre-campaign notability to keep, a solid bio can be sourced from election coverage.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:43, 29 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I don't think any of those sources make a showing of notability above and beyond what is routine. He's certainly not notable for his campaign, and there aren't other sources that would make him notable. The adoption source especially is just a name-drop and an article he wrote himself. Sticking with delete. SportingFlyer talk 05:03, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Puzzled by this comment, since searches bring up many articles where he is quoted and his explanations written up by major daily papers in various states an an expert on adoption law.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:41, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm puzzled as to why you would think being quoted in a few articles on adoption law would establish notability. A search for '"bob tuke" adoption' doesn't bring up any significant coverage of him. SportingFlyer talk 17:33, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
When journalists interviewed him about the adoption reforms in Tennessee (where he co-wrote and lobbied for the new law) he was being interviewed as a player. But when the AP called him to ask about a Florida law required mothers to "to list her name, age and description, along with descriptions of any men who could have fathered the child. The ads must run once a week for four weeks in a newspaper in the city where the child was believed to have been conceived." the reporter phoned Tuke as a recognized legal expert. "There's no comparable law in any other state, and it's really hard to imagine how a legislature could pass such a law if they thought about it," said Bob Tuke, president of the American Academy of Adoption Attorneys. "It treats women like chattel." It shows that he was recognized as a legal expert on the subject. A lot of newspapers/reporters used him as a recognized expert over the years, just a couple of examples: (Grandmother: Russians lied to us, Hall, Kristin M. Telegraph - Herald; Dubuque, Iowa [Dubuque, Iowa]11 Apr 2010: A.3.) "Bob Tuke, a member of American Academy of Adoption Attorneys, said abandonment charges against the family could depend on whether the boy was a U.S. citizen. It wasn't clear if the adoption had become final but..."; (A PRIVATE MATTER NO LONGER THE STIGMA OF ADOPTION FADES, BUT SOME STINGS PERSIST: [Third Edition], Pertman, Adam. Boston Globe; Boston, Mass. [Boston, Mass]08 Mar 1998: A1."""They're afraid the birth parents are going to want their kids back or, worse, the kids will want to return to their birth parents," says Bob Tuke, an adoption attorney in Tennessee who has two adopted children. "But neither of those things almost ever happens. And the adoptive parents who stay with the process find there's nothing to feel threatened about." It shows that he was recognized as an expert on the subject. no more, but no less.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:11, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
My argument for notability is cumulative, it adds together notability as a lawyer, as an advocate who got a significant reform bill passed on adoption, as a legal expert, and as a party activist who chaired the Democratic Party of Tennessee and several Tennessee campaigns, including Obama. All of this is was covered in the press before he ran for office.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:24, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
With that in mind, based on the review of the sources, I still don't think he passes WP:GNG - I highly doubt we would keep an article or even have an article on him at all but for his campaign. SportingFlyer talk 01:02, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Can those who asked for deletion revisit their views in the light of improvements to the article?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:53, 30 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do note that I began my first cmment in this discussion by linking to a profile in The Chattanoogan, local coverage does "count," although it does not suffice. Redditaddict69, as has been mentioned by editors at other discussions and on your talk page, it can take time to understand the guidelines that apply to these discussions.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:07, 2 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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