Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bob Schirmer

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. postdlf (talk) 22:07, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bob Schirmer[edit]

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Notability not established Peter Rehse (talk) 18:29, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 18:29, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:27, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:27, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This article needs a LOT of work. But Schirmer passes WP:WPMA/N based on his Gracie World Submission Championship titles in 2003, '04 and '05 [1]. With some good secondary sourcing (which is out there), he should pass WP:GNG. Luchuslu (talk) 12:23, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that tournament is sufficient to show notability. It suddenly became a world championship event when the Relson Gracie National Championship combined with the Arnold Sports Festival. See more at my comment below. Jakejr (talk) 15:44, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I understand what you mean about the IBJJF, but don't believe success in their tournements (which admittedly are more prestigous) is required to show notability. All you need to pass WP:WPMA/N as a martial artist is to be a "Repeated medalist (as an adult black belt, i.e. 1st dan equivalent or higher rank) in another significant event; - (e.g. competitors from multiple nations or significant national tournament, not an internal school champion)." Since Arnold's combined with Gracie's tournament, it can't be considered an internal school tournament. Plus, any title with the Gracie name in BJJ is significant. That should be enough for a keep in my opinion. Luchuslu (talk) 19:18, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but not every Gracie or thing associated with a Gracie is notable. Several Gracies have had articles deleted via AfD.Mdtemp (talk) 16:20, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The notability of individual Gracies has nothing to do with this. Winning a BJJ tournament with the Gracie name attached to it three consecutive years is at the very least significant, which is all WP:WPMA/N requires for individual notability. Luchuslu (talk) 18:21, 26 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete My search found Schirmer is not mentioned at the IBJJF web site for any event. The IBJJF was already holding true world championship events by the late 1990s so success at the Arnold-Gracie event does not meet WP:MANOTE. He did appear once at the ADCC (2000) where he was choked out in the first round of his first match. I don't believe that meets WP:MANOTE either. Induction into martial arts halls of fame is also not sufficient to show notability. Jakejr (talk) 15:44, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
weak delete I rarely comment on an MMA fighter/teacher, but I am familiar with MR Schrimer as I have a close friend who has studied under him. I have to agree Jakejr on his MMA notability.. I am also troubled by his right to hold the title "Master". I am going to assume its for TKD, although I can't find any mention of it.I am troubled when someone gains a title in one art (e.g. gransmaster/master) and uses it to teach another. Its a pet peeve of mine.MartialArtsLEO (talk) 23:37, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete Doesn't quite meet WP:MANOTE or WP:GNG.Mdtemp (talk) 16:20, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, SarahStierch (talk) 20:34, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep limited competition notability [2] but did have some nontrivial successes, and continues to garner minor attention [3], [4], [5]. JJL (talk) 19:04, 30 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete Doesn't meet WP:MANOTE and lacks the sources to meet WP:GNG. The articles mentioned by JJL are from local papers and websites of unknown reliability and independence. They show he runs a martial arts school but that's not sufficient to show notability. Papaursa (talk) 19:13, 30 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.