Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bijan Zamani

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ‑Scottywong| spout _ 17:13, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bijan Zamani[edit]

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Bijan Zamani (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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No RS, nothing significant can be found to create a page, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 05:14, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Meeanaya (talk) 05:14, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. CThomas3 (talk) 05:19, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. CThomas3 (talk) 05:19, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Categories have been edited and corrected. Most of the sources are reliable sources such as MehrNews, TehranTimes, Jamejam, EverybodyWiki, Tabnak, ILNA and AsrIran and all of these sources have their own wikipedia page and are well known popular news agency websites. Blake44 (talk) 10:34, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Most of sources mentioned by you, are not reliable, unfortunately!Hispring (talk) 17:32, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete interviews do not add to notability. Also, most physicians need to be notable as academics, which he clearly is not.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:53, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As I have added more reliable and non-interview sources from Mehr News Agency, Tehran Times, Iran_(newspaper), Iranian Labour News Agency, Crunchbase, Jam-e Jam (newspaper) and the physician part being removed, is it possible for you to change your vote? Best - Blake44 (talk) 15:36, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There is no doubt that he is a notable entrepreneur. There are many articles with reliable sources that talk about him other than the interviews, about the physician part I agree with John Pack Lambert so I think he should be mentioned as Iranian entrepreneur only. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.54.73.122 (talk) 03:20, 12 July 2019 (UTC) .[reply]
N.B. This user is using a confirmed and now blocked open proxy. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 11:37, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per John Pack Lambert. Most likely a WP:PROMO article. Best, GPL93 (talk) 14:41, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As I have added more reliable and non-interview non-promotional sources from Mehr News Agency, Tehran Times, Iran_(newspaper), Iranian Labour News Agency, Crunchbase, Jam-e Jam (newspaper)... is it possible for you to change your vote? I also believe I can work on this and make it better. Best - Blake44 (talk) 15:38, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Comment The article was poorly referenced and poorly formatted therefor I edited the article with new references and details. The writer of this article probably used the interviews to write the Wikipedia page and didn't know the Wikipedia should NOT be based on interviews. According to my research Bijan Zamani has been in notable and in the news for his work for the last 12 years, I found news archives from him that goes back to 2007. Please note that due to U.S. sanctions and relations many American websites do not cover the work of Iranian entrepreneurs but that doesn’t make this article less important. Many of the sources in this article are older and more reliable for Iranians than sources like “The New York Times”, “Huffington Post”, “Business Insider” or “Entrepreneur Magazine” or other sources that Wikipedia article creators’ usually reference to for entrepreneurs. I found many sources in Persian language but I tried to gather English coverage as much as possible for this article. By removing this article you are removing true and notable information. I have set aside the interviews at the end and all the links in the references that are connected to the main article purpose are all according to Wikipedia’s guideline and it’s based on notability and importance of the person’s work. Also to comment on users point of view dear John Pack Lambert the article is not about him being a physician at all and I think it was the article creators mistake at first, the category of the article was set for Iranian_People then you changed it to Iranian_Phycisians and his career or awards was never about his profession as physician. I see that the original writer removed the physician part which is the right move and I’m not arguing in that part. Dear Meeanaya according to Wikipedia page that you reference to WP:GNG and RS which I believe you mean Reliable Sources please note that all the references and details are more than “Reliable”. All the sources are secondary sources and the Interview links has been moved and now are not connected to the main article if needed the interview links can be removed or moved to External Links. In my point of view this article has more notability and reliable sources than many other entrepreneurs that have an article in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia’s List of Entrepreneurs (21th century). Best — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blake44 (talk • contribs) 14:07, 14 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You can Comment as many times as you want but you only have one vote in an AfD. Best, GPL93 (talk) 15:40, 14 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep They are so unique and famous personality I have no problems with my biography page.Alexkia1399 (talk) 19:05, 14 July 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock. Bakazaka (talk) 15:57, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have serious concerns that this is a possible WP:SOCK situation, as I did with Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Reza Bahram (another article created by Alexkia1399). Outside the creator's keep vote, the other two are by a now-blocked web proxy and an account that has made only one edit outside Bijan Zamani and this deletion discussion. Best, GPL93 (talk) 19:10, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment In reply to GPL93, I don't think it is wise to start editing or voting for Wikipedia pages without fully understanding the rules, guidelines, possible outcomes and the environment. That's why I'm reading, studying and monitoring not just this article but 2 other to see according to guideline how the editors and administrators work. I'm not connected to the creator or other editors. I don't think me and the creator have the same English skills and as I see his/her comments and writing, I don't think he/she should be even credited for creating this article as I did all the research and editing. I would like to suggest GPL93 to stay on the subject and comment about the reason(s) you feel this article's information and source doesn't meet the notability guidelines in Wikipedia and please do not violate Wikipedia's rules such as "address the arguments, not the person making them". I'm sorry Alexkia1399 and GPL93 if I'm being straight forward, I just want to be clear, professional and respectful to Wikipedia's rules. Best, Blake44 (talk) 21:31, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I see potential in several Wikipedia articles like this one and I will work on them if they get accepted and make them more complete and useful. Best, Blake44 (talk) 21:31, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per recent article improvements. He is in multiple mainstream sources and won national awards which clearly meets WP:GNG. According to its [1][2][3] sources half the population of his country is using his services. Easily passes notability guidelines. The "Delete" opinions were based on interviews but now the references have changed and interviews not used I don't see any reason to delete this article and I don't see any new comments about this matter from negative voters after recent improvements either. - Jacobz1 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:23, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I just googled the name of his "startup" in Persian: "Mihanpezashk" which is a copy of Zocdoc. Just found some minor results on non notable news websites:
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

And here is his name (Bijan Zamani) in Persian:

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

So I doun't think that the subject is notable enough, fails WP:GNG.Farhikht (talk) 11:11, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Farhikht please look at the articles references the sources are from Mehr News Agency, Tehran Times, Iran_(newspaper), Iranian Labour News Agency, Crunchbase, Jam-e Jam (newspaper) which they are not "non notable" sources, please check the sources and references in the article and if it's possible change your vote? I believe I can make this article much better and work on it Best - Blake44 (talk) 15:41, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment In reply to Farhikht your vote must be voided and you are wrong please look at the references of the article. Editors should not vote in Wikipedia if they don't have the necessary knowledge. The first reference is from MehrNews here is their Wikipedia Mehr News Agency the second source is from Tehran times here is their Wikipedia Tehran Times the third source is from IranDaily here is their Wikipedia page Iran_(newspaper) and many other from Iranian Labour News Agency, Crunchbase, Jam-e Jam (newspaper) ... if these are not notable news website then what are? , Best - Blake44 (talk) 11:42, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Report Note to administrators: I have serious concerns that this is a possible WP:VANDAL situation. Looks like users Farhikht and GPL93 have issues with the creator Alexkia1399 as they both voted on his/hers other creation and instantly down voted this article too without any reason and the other user Farhikht says no notable news website which is a total lie as I explained and showed on the previous comment. I also might not like the creator (Alexkia1399)'s activity but It is not right to take it to this article as these are not connected to each other at all !, Best - Blake44 (talk) 13:28, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me, but how exactly is expressing concerns about sock puppetry after notice votes from a proxy (immediately blocked by Malcolmxl5) and newly created accounts that have only contributed to articles and the AfDs involving the same editor Vandalism? Farhikht made very salient points but now his vote must be voided because you don’t like it?? Originally I believed that you and Alexkia1399 we’re not connected after your initial response, but this statement leads me to think that May not be the truth. GPL93 (talk) 13:37, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You wrote "per John Pack Lambert. Most likely a WP:PROMO article. Best" here is your first comment and the second one about sock puppetry was related to the creator's other article that you commented on 18:51, 15 July 2019 (UTC) and right after on 19:10, 15 July 2019 (UTC) you commented on this article and Farhikht did the exact same thing, I'm not arguing on whether the creator made any mistakes or not and I don't care but this is a different article and I worked on it and added notable and high profile sources in reply to your first comment. Voting and judgement of the entire article as an editor based on another users activity on another article is not very professional and I call it Vandalism as you are deliberately intending to obstruct the article based on creator's activity not the article itself. You are saying you believe that me and the creator are not connected but before I opened this dispute it looked like you believed it and your comments made it look like that. Farhikht did not make a very salient point at all not because I don't like it because based on TRUE EVIDENCE like showing exact sources with their notability in my comment showing what he is saying is a total lie and should be voided. I showed and linked the sources and I asked are these high profile and notable sources or not ? I'm asking you too, read my last comment and look at the sources, are these "non notable news websites"? I will write here too are these "non notable news websites" Mehr News Agency, Tehran Times, Iran_(newspaper), Iranian Labour News Agency, Crunchbase, Jam-e Jam (newspaper)? , Best - Blake44 (talk) 14:05, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If you'd like me to expand on my vote, even after reviewing the new sources you have added I do not see notability. Firstoff, Crunchbase is an online database so it doesn't really contribute to notability. Also being mentioned in listicles, while better than nothing, also aren't great because the coverage is not generally in depth or significant (WP:SIGCOV) for one specific subject and interviews, while a source for adding content onto an article, generally don't establish notability either. Overall, I do not see the sustained and in-depth coverage necessary for an WP:GNG pass. I also stand by my earlier assessment of a WP:PROMO violation as well given the tone of the article. I hope that I have better explained my vote. GPL93 (talk) 20:48, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://en.mehrnews.com/news/147573/The-digital-health-startup-that-is-improving-healthcare Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian news media Mehr_News_Agency Yes The source discusses the subject directly and in detail ✔ Yes
https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/438058/Successful-Iranian-Entrepreneurs-You-Should-Know-About Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian news media Tehran_Times ~ The article mentions the subject in a list ~ Partial
https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/436733/Interview-with-MihanPezeshk-founder-Dr-Bijan-Zamani Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian news media Tehran_Times Yes The article mentions the subject in details ✔ Yes
https://irannewsdaily.com/2019/07/why-startups-fail-and-what-you-can-learn-from-them/ Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian news media Yes The article discusses the subject directly ✔ Yes
https://www.asriran.com/fa/news/676753 Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian news media (Page in Persian Wikipedia added on left side) ~ The article mentions the subject briefly ~ Partial
https://www.tabnak.ir/fa/news/906349 Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian news media (Page in Persian Wikipedia added on left side) Yes The article discusses the subject directly ✔ Yes
http://www.iran-daily.com/News/255778.html Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian government agency Iran_(newspaper) Yes The article discusses the subject directly ✔ Yes
https://web.archive.org/web/20080414173309/http://www.webna.ir/news/?id=62034100 Yes Yes The source is the Iranian Website News Agency website (Archived) ~ The article discusses the subject briefly ~ Partial
http://jamejamonline.ir/online/3771896778105568423/ Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian news agency Jam-e Jam (newspaper) Yes The article discusses the subject directly ✔ Yes
https://www.ilna.ir/Section-medical-10/770899-interview-with-young-entreprenuer-bijan-zamani Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian news agency Iranian Labour News Agency Yes The article discusses the subject directly ✔ Yes
https://en.mehrnews.com/news/146299/Dr-Bijan-Zamani-talks-about-an-easier-way-to-find-a-doctor Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian news agency Mehr News Agency Yes The article discusses the subject directly ✔ Yes
https://click.ir/1398/04/23/best-digital-healthcare-startups-in-iran/ Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian technology magazine (Alexa Rank: 365) ~ The article discusses the subject in a list ~ Partial
https://arga-mag.com/360861 Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian technology magazine (Alexa Rank: 43) ~ The article discusses the subject briefly ~ Partial
https://www.alodoctor.com/articles/details/48485 Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian health magazine (Alexa Rank: 281) Yes The article discusses the subject directly ✔ Yes
https://profile.iwmf.ir/website/mihanpezeshk.com Yes Yes The official website of Iranian Web & Mobile Festival ? Unknown
https://www.crunchbase.com/person/bijan-zamani Yes ? Crunchbase As explained in their Wikipedia page members can also add information but the ranking and rating are done by moderators only. ? Unknown
https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/mihanpezeshk#section-related-hubs Yes ? Crunchbase As explained in their Wikipedia page members can also add information but the ranking and rating are done by moderators only. ? Unknown
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

There are other sources which I didn't know how to write them in this table. If anyone knows and thinks this needs editing please complete this table. If the article gets accepted I'm sure I can find more details and reliable sources. Best - Blake44 (talk) 11:10, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I just found more sources and can make this article much better if there is still time to work on this as today is decision time from an administrator. Best - Blake44 (talk) 18:01, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Blake44-just as some advice. Interviews and reports of interviews are considered primary sources and therefore don't count towards WP:GNG. Also, some of these sources go into depth more on the subject of his startup or startup culture in general than Zamani himself. It's possible that his company is more of a candidate for notability than he is. I know sourcing and where notability lies can be confusing, especially when you start out editing. Also, I don't think that you need to rush to find sources by the end of the day. I'd be shocked if this discussion isn't relisted to be discussed for another week to generate a clearer consensus, so you have more time than you think-the week long period of discussion is not a hard deadline. Best, GPL93 (talk) 18:34, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your advice GPL93 it's very helpful as I'm still learning, although I have a question specially in new sources I found out that what if the person (Zamani) has more than one startup and in a news agency or magazine website they talk about him and his other works, should each company or business have a separate page? or instead have this page and relate other companies or startups to this page? Because as I researched entrepreneur's in List_of_entrepreneurs this page many of them (example: Jeremy_Levitt, Phiwa_Nkambule, David_Karp) have one or maybe two works related to them but the businesses doesn't have a page or if they have the founder has the main page. can you give me a little insight about this as you said it's confusing. Best - Blake44 (talk) 18:49, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Just Chilling (talk) 14:20, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete the wp:WP:BLPRS is not satisfied with used sources.Also as WP:BLP1E say, Wikipedia is not news, or an indiscriminate collection of information. Being in the news does not in itself mean that someone should be the subject of a Wikipedia article.Hispring (talk) 18:13, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment In reply to Hispring, the article is not about an event, your vote is voided. What you are saying does not apply to this article at all. Please read WP:BLP1E the conditions and rules carefully. Best - Blake44 (talk) 19:30, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Blake44 You do not get to unilaterally void Hispring or any other editors vote. We only void the votes made by sockpuppets. Secondly, WP:BLP1E applies to biographical articles about persons who's media coverage is limited to a short period of time, usually confined to someone being famous to one event. His main argument was about the sourcing if you actually read his statement. Please do not accuse other's of not following Wikipedia policy if you do not yourself fully understand per WP:CIR. Finally, at this time I'm going to ask that you disclose if you have any personal or professional connection to Bijan Zamani per WP:COI. GPL93 (talk) 12:16, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Just noted that the article has been speedy deleted two times in Persian Wikipedia in July 2019 by two separate admins.Farhikht (talk) 12:34, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment In reply to GPL93, I might be a little furious but it's due to discrimination that I see in Wikipedia and No, I don't have any personal or professional connection to Bijan Zamani at all. I have many information about entrepreneurs and startups all around the world as I follow their news every single day. I have read every single article and their references in Wikipedia’s List of entrepreneurs (21th century) as I mentioned before along with many other biographical pages in Wikipedia and I can name more than 20 pages that have less reference and notability than this article. Secondly, this article has 19 references and 10 of them are not related to any news website they are either magazines or festival websites and I’m sure WP:BLP1E does not apply to this article at all. Finally, I have sent messages to editors in this article to seek their advice and opinion on how to improve articles on Wikipedia but no one answered, but when it comes to negative voting and negative comments everyone just rush into it. Maybe I don’t understand the Wikipedia’s community so I don’t think my contributions are helpful therefor as my last contribution to this article I added 2 new references and made a source assess table as well. Personally I’d be shocked to see this page deleted. – Best
Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://en.mehrnews.com/news/147878/Biography-of-Bijan-Zamani Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian news media Mehr News Agency Yes The source discusses the subject directly and in detail ✔ Yes
https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/438396/Bijan-Zamani-s-Success-Story-as-an-Entrepreneur Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian news media Tehran Times Yes The source discusses the subject directly and in detail ✔ Yes
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Blake44 (talk) 12:59, 21 July 2019 (UTC):[reply]

Comment: Both of them published today. Again two major Iranian media Tehran Times and Mehr News. By the way, Tehran Times article is somehow a copy of this one.Farhikht (talk) 13:32, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me, but how? this link that you provided the article is about why startups fail and startups in general then briefly talks about Bijan Zamani but this new article is about Bijan Zamani's life and success... how are they the same? I think you have a personal problem with Bijan Zamani or me maybe because I questioned your vote that was not related to this article. I don't want to be dragged into this game and will not answer to your replies. Just let an administrator make a decision. Blake44 (talk) 13:46, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: New source added with assess table:

Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://en.isna.ir/news/98043116474/Meet-the-first-Iranian-doctor-programmer Yes Yes The source is a major Iranian news agency Iranian Students News Agency Yes The source discusses the subject directly and in detail ✔ Yes
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
Keep: Seems notable to me. Just need a little more editing Zinzoo01 (talk) 09:05, 25 July 2019 (UTC)— Zinzoo01 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Delete as obvious WP:PROMO. This has all the hallmarks of a promotional package in which a press release is pushed to news agencies, interviews are offered, and online reputation/PR firms try to get a subject into Wikipedia. The cited sources are interviews and churnalism. As for the sourcing, well, somehow we've got this far without mentioning that Mehr News Agency and Tehran Times are the same company, which is odd. I'm sure the closing admin will give the socks and SPAs exactly the amount of consideration they deserve. Bakazaka (talk) 04:52, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Absurd and suspicious comment by Bakazaka. The article has more than enough in-depth coverage necessary for an WP:GNG pass from reliable sources. Out of 22 sources only 2 are interviews and they were discussed before on top of the page. No promotion is visible in the article if it is please remove the promotional part. The news organization that you talk about is almost a 70 year old organization with very high reputation. News agencies in the world will NOT publish a press release or promotional news without mentioning that this is a promotional article or sponsored content or not written by our editors. Mehr News Agency and Tehran Times are from the same company and so is many other news organizations in the world, as an example Postmedia Network own more than 30 newspapers and magazines and many other companies that have the same situation in the US, UK. Plus this article has many other sources such as Iran_(newspaper) which is the official daily newspaper of the government of Iran. Jam-e Jam (newspaper) is a daily newspaper published in Iran owned by the National Iranian Radio and Television. Iranian Labour News Agency, Iranian Students News Agency and many others. I'm sure the closing admin will consider the facts and sources only and not the suspicious game that some editors have started here. Please consider that this article has sources from the most reliable sources in Iran and has enough in-depth coverage necessary for an WP:GNG pass. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 … - Best Blake44 (talk) 10:17, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What is the argument? That the sources are not "notable"? According to Wikipedia these are “NOTABLE” List of Iranian news agencies in Iran and accordingly this article has at least 6 references from these notable sources. There is no denying that the sources in this article are very notable, reliable and independent. Other sources also have their own Wikipedia page and they are the most reliable notable sources in Iran. Some editors talked about interviews and without even reading the article itself and the comments that were made in this page and with closed eyes they made FALSE comments. On 14 July 2019 this issue has been resolved before relisting. At first yes, the original creator used interviews as main source then on 14 July 2019 I edited the whole reference and sources with non-interview sources such as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 … Any editor is most welcome to remove the only 1 or 2 interview links that were listed as they have no influence in the article at all. In my evaluation according to Wikipedia rules and according to Wikipedia lists of notable sources this article has enough in-depth coverage necessary for an WP:GNG and probably will have a lot more sources and coverage in future. - Best Blake44 (talk) 13:48, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep the article. As I can see the above table, its a well sourced article and its sources are reliable. The subject looks notable, too.Forest90 (talk) 17:16, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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