Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Betty Van Patter

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was rename. Will move to Death of Betty Van Patter. J04n(talk page) 14:29, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Betty Van Patter[edit]

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Unable to establish independent WP:N in WP:RS, including google, google news, and other google books. All references seem to lead back to Horowitz' allegation. Horowitz also is the publisher of FrontPage Mag. Kate Coleman's work on Salon has been the subject of multiple WP:RSN disputes, which all seem to suggest that her writings are non-RS.

If not deleted, this should be redirected to Horowitz' page, as the only notability of the subject that I can find is based on his unproven allegations. [ UseTheCommandLine ~/talk ] # _ 16:42, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. czar · · 17:05, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States-related deletion discussions. czar · · 17:05, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:16, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:16, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rename Death of Betty Van Patter; the subject has received passing mention in multiple non-primary reliable sources, I have to agree with the proposer of this AfD that the subject of this AfD has not received significant coverage. That being said, the mystery surrounding her death has received significant coverage in multiple reliable sources, such as this article from the Oakland Tribune, and this book from Da Capo Press. As these in-depth coverage of the event occurred years after the subject of this AfD died, I would say her death has received continued coverage, and thus the event which is her death is notable. Therefore, the subject of this AfD falls under WP:BIO1E, and the subject should be changed to her death and the investigation, and open (cold) case that is its present status.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 23:29, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 23:31, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pearson's book is not without its reliability issues. (I have a copy.) It also does not appear to mention Van Patter independently of Horowitz's allegations. -- [ UseTheCommandLine ~/talk ] # _ 07:49, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merge and redirect to Elaine Brown#Murder of Betty Van Patter. I have no strong objections to Death of Betty Van Patter, however, I do not think her death would be notable independent of the allegations tying her to Brown. (Regarding "murder" vs "death": the Mother Jones article states that she was murdered.) Location (talk) 23:12, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Since it is an unsolved murder, I feel fairly strongly about not redirecting it to the article of a person accused (again, by Horowitz, a not-disinterested party) of somehow participating in the murder, at least not without some other strong sourcing for that allegation. Since Horowitz is the one making the allegations (AFAICT), i figured the appropriate redirect would be to him. -- [ UseTheCommandLine ~/talk ] # _ 07:43, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, the better redirect target is Brown since she is the subject of the allegations and the material simply fits there better. Even though the allegations originated with David Horowitz, GNews and GBooks reveals that those allegations have been reported on by a variety of secondary sources (as RightCowLeftCoast alluded to previously). In other words, this is not an allegation made by someone whose opinion mattered to no one.

I cannot speak to the overall reliability of Pearson's Shadow of the Panther, but it was published by a reputable publisher and has been reviewed favorably by The New York Times , Publishers Weekly, the Los Angeles Times and others. I don't think it really matters whether or not there are allegations or investigations that were made independently of Horowitz, but Pearson gives a fair amount of coverage to Van Patter and to Horowitz's allegations, and he indicates on p.346 that he interviewed an investigator and Van Patter's sister.[1] Contentious material like this certainly requires in-text attribution, but there is no need to delete it from Wikipedia when other secondary sources have reported on it. Location (talk) 22:47, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to Death of Betty Van Patter and Keep. Notability is somewhat broderline here, but I have to agree that merging into Elaine Brown might raise BLP issues. The best solution is to rename it as proposed by RightCowLeftCoast above. The actual content of the article seems fine to me, as it doesn't directly allege that Brown was responsible for Van Patter's death, it only states that Horowitz has made such allegations. Robofish (talk) 11:22, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.