Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Belvidere Discount Mall

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Well rescued by Milowent. JohnCD (talk) 19:44, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Belvidere Discount Mall[edit]

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Apparently non-notable mall, as there are no non-trivial sources cited, and a Google search for non-trivial reliable sources came up dry. SchuminWeb (Talk) 19:24, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE RE PRIOR AFD Added Nov 16: This article was previously nominated for deletion in December 2007 and KEPT: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Belvidere Mall --Milowent (talk) 16:04, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lake County's first enclosed shopping mall; official website is [1].--jonrev (talk) 23:21, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Here is one [2]. Not sure about if it is reliable or verifiable however. (Appears borderline) TheWeakWilled (T * G) 23:41, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't believe it qualifies, since Labelscar is a self-published source. SchuminWeb (Talk) 01:25, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If that is the case, I !vote delete. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 01:31, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Malls-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:15, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:16, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I agree with jonrev. Being "opened in 1965 as the first and only enclosed mall in Lake County" does qualify as Notable. Exit2DOS ^{• Ctrl • Alt • Del} 02:20, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is that sarcasm? TheWeakWilled (T * G) 02:25, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not at all. It was an application of common sense. AFD is not to judge if the current article is good enough... but if the topic is actually notable. Being the first at something is notable. Exit2DOS ^{• Ctrl • Alt • Del} 02:40, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I believe notability is established. per jonrev.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:13, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

~~*Delete~~ I don't see anything here that establishes notability. The two websites mentioned so far are a self published blog, and a commercial promotional site. There don't seem to be any references at all in books, and the news search just turns up a few widely spaced articles that mention the mall in passing but are not about it. In short there is nothing that comes close to meeting the "has been the subject of significant coverage in secondary sources" requirement in WP:COMPANY.Rusty Cashman (talk) 05:11, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I struck out my delete vote becasue the arguments no longer apply in light of the new sources found. Rusty Cashman (talk) 03:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, Mall of America is notable. A small town shopping mall is not. There is no real historical significance to this mall, unlike certain others such as Roosevelt Field in NY which was an airport Charles Lindeburgh took off from on his famous flights. It's just another shopping mall most people have never heard of and never will. Alan - talk 05:25, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments After Article Improved[edit]

Strong Keep: This article needed some loving care. I spent some time today researching this mall, revamping, and adding a number of references. The mall is notable for being the first enclosed shopping mall in the region (and was the primary mall from at least 1965-1971, making it notable), and then reinventing itself over time to survive - it now primarily serves a Hispanic population. It has also received significant press coverage. The references I added today include the Chicago Sun-Times, Lake County News-Sun, and lengthy pieces by online retail history sites deadmalls.com and labelscar.com. Google news archive tells me there are more articles focused on the mall on the pay archives for the Chicago Tribune and Chicago Sun-Times which I don't have access too (I have a free highbeam account this month, but these sources aren't on there far enough back to access). Although this mall is smaller than a large regional mall which would be automatically notable under Wikipedia:MALL (essay, rejected guideline), I believe it has historic significance and sufficient non-trivial published works of credible and reliable secondary source material written about it for inclusion on Wikipedia.--Milowent (talk) 15:34, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nice rescue job. I think the news articles you found probably put it over the top a(though just barely)notablility wise. Therefore I am striking out my delete vote.Rusty Cashman (talk) 03:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It got mentioned in credible news sources. Dream Focus 20:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The rewrite by Milowent (talk · contribs) establishes that Belvidere Discount Mall passes WP:GNG. Nice job! Cunard (talk) 01:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.