Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beer Die

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Fernando Rizo 16:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Beer Die[edit]

nn drinking game. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe this article needs to be improved not removed. Why delete it anyway? (nn?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.226.72.188 (talk • contribs)

*"'Keep'". I love beer die. It is a big part of my cultural experience and I plan to contribute to the entry.

  • Keep. I have considerable experience in this area since I went through Category:Drinking games a while back and nominated all the ones that didn't show at least one non-mirror Google hit (I was being very generous). This one has its own website; that's good enough for me. Daniel Case 05:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment It has its own website, at http://www.beerdiegame.com/ but that website has no alexa ranking. The website is neither a sign of notability nor a reliable source. --Xyzzyplugh 08:37, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • CommentSeptember 20th, 2006 - I am the creator of www.beerdiegame.com and I can assure you that it is a legit site. Some people may play it differently than others but it's all basicly the same. I learned it at Ball State University from a friend in ZBT. His brothers brought the game back from out east in the early 90's. Originally played on a door that had been ripped off frame. From there we/it evolved into what it is today. Minor changes to the game to only make it better and more competitive, like adding the net with the fringe so you can see if the die goes under the net. Circles on each corner among other rules.
      • I tried to use that logic last time, but got shot down by people who insisted one non-mirror ref was good enough. Daniel Case 14:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete drinking games are not inherently notable, does not meet any notability standards otherwise. ⇒ SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 11:01, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • We have quite a category of drinking games (see above), actually, and even a nav template in some of the more popular ones. Now some IMO should clearly be deleted, but when references were put in by badlydrawnjeff (I think), they were kept despite very minimal web presence. I am more partial to saving a drinking game if it has its own site and not just a mention on "submit a drinking game" type sites. (And we definitely need to delete TV-based drinking games like this. Daniel Case 14:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete — Almost anything has a website nowdays. no verifyability from reliable sources for this drinking game. Definately non-notable . Peripitus (Talk) 12:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete Website OK but not WP:NOTABILITY (hits) User:Yy-bo 17:12, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • We're judging a drinking game here, not the website. I realize this is a much more nebulous standard, but consider [Check Google hits] what you get for this on Google. I suspect that might be a better argument for notability. Daniel Case 17:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete not quite noteable enough
  • Delete not notable. Marcus22 15:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changed vote to Keep Just looked at Daniel Case's g hits. There are a lot not related to Beer Die and a lot in German - which means little to me - but it also looks like there are an awful lot of people out there who have heard of this. That does it for me. Looks notable enough. Marcus22 19:25, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete per nom. --Dennis The TIger 16:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Prior vote retracted, switch to Keep. If Quarters is in and if Bouncing coins survives, frankly, so should this. Yes, it's silly, but frankly, so is The Fifth Element drinking game. --Dennis The TIger 16:00, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

*Don't Delete!! This is a legit game with complex offensive and defensive strategies. It is in the interest of the people to have this page up and running on wikipedia. Froda —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.144.193.245 (talk • contribs) .

  • Comment: Complexity and/or legitimacy does not necessarily equate to notability. I could give an example of 43 Man Squamish, which is so complex it's unplayable and definitely not legitimate, but seems to be included as a notable parody of sports. My vote, for one, still stands. --Dennis The TIger 20:14, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Note: edited for a verbiage correction on my own text. See history for prior text. --Dennis The TIger 20:16, 3 September 2006 (UTC) [reply]
    • 43 Man Squamish is, as the article notes right off the bat, notable because it was invented by MAD magazine as a joke, but so great was the popularity and influence of the magazine that students at a number of colleges formed teams to try and play it.

      I can't believe I'm the inclusionist here. I have demonstrated above that a) Wikipedia has a number of drinking game articles and b) Google returns 103,000 hits for this game, very few of which are mirrors. Upgrading my vote to Strong keep to make my point better. Daniel Case 02:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: This is precisely what I said: 43MS is a notable parody of sports, and you have demonstrated exactly why it is notable by effectively summarizing the article.

    It's my opinion that you should not so much be more assertive in defending the article, but find better assertion in why the article should not be deleted. How you do that is left as an exercise. --Dennis The TIger 19:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

    • "...you should not so much be more assertive in defending the article, but find better assertion in why the article should not be deleted."
      Hmm ... how exactly are those two different? I thought by doing the first I was doing the last. Daniel Case 04:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Allow me rephrase, go for quality versus quantity. --Dennis The TIger 07:48, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. NN.-Kmaguir1 20:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep or merge to Liar's dice. Beer dice is a quite notable drinking game, plenty of books on drinking games regarding dice, etc. --badlydrawnjeff talk 15:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. The German-language ghits look to have nothing to do with this subject. From the top: "Barq's Root Beer Die Alternative"; "Der kleine Eisbär rettet die Rentiere von Hans de Beer. Die ISBN lautet: 10 3-314-01450-3"; "Am besten gelungen ist Genossen Beer die Geschichte des Sozialismus seit Anbruch der Neuzeit."; und so weiter. Well there's 25% of the ghits gone for a start. Google hits, or their absence, prove nothing. Angus McLellan (Talk) 18:05, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In and of themselves, no. But eliminate 25% of the ghits for this and you've still got well over 70,000. We've kept articles with far less than that as a measure of sheer notability. I believe that in this case the ghits are a proxy for whether people actually play this game. We've got multiple non-mirror sites discussing and delineating rules for this. To address a point that's come up in other drinking-game AFDs, there are places to go if someone challenges where a particular rule came from other than Wikipedia. Daniel Case 04:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps, but subjects with zero ghits would be fine, just so long as they cited reliable sources and were thus verifiable. This article doesn't do that, so it has to go. Angus McLellan (Talk) 18:10, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Which is why I said keep or merge - there's plenty of "reliable" "verifiable" sources available for this, check Amazon. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:15, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Deja vu all over again. You have your book but I don't think it's a reliable source. Angus McLellan (Talk) 18:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So this basically comes down to whether this book is a reliable source or not. I suggest we put on hold any deletions over this issue until you settle this one. Daniel Case 03:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Everybody please look at this one for comparison, where there are many of the same issues but the ultimate consensus was keep. Daniel Case 04:44, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also here. Daniel Case 04:47, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: That's precisely what I was looking for. =^_^= Stand by for my own retraction and recast. --Dennis The TIger 15:58, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep You won't change the importance of this game at Colby, Middlebury, Dartmouth or wherever else it is played, by removing it from Wikipedia. However, just because this game may not be "notable" to some people on this chat, that does not mean this resource should be deleted. Would you understand how to play this game if you hadn't heard about it on Wikipedia? Would you even know about it? I learned about it through friends from school, but now I know people who use this website to verify the rules and find out different strategies - whether they're new to the game or veterans. Keep! definitely keep! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.232.62.11 (talk • contribs) . *Keep. To those of us who have spent literally hundreds of hours playing this game, its relevance is unquestionable. The most compelling reason to keep this is that it is a valuable resource to those who choose to play Beer Die. Additionally, one of the great things about the game is that while there are basic, undeniable rules, the more nuanced rules are open to discussion, debate, and style. This wikipedia entry provides a necessary forum for hashing out those nuances. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jjabodee (talk • contribs) . *KeepWhat makes our country great is the freedom to spend days on end throwing balls at cups - and the right to spread the gospel of the sheer beauty of the game to others.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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