Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battoni

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus to delete - there are valid arguments on either side of the keep/delete debate. There does appear to be a consensus that this might be an alternate spelling of Batoni; as part of the closure, I will make this move. I will further tag the article with {{cleanup-afd}} as there is a consensus here that more work needs to be done on verifying the existence of the place and subsequently verifying that it is inherently notable from the 'inhabited place' standpoint. A collection of businesses is not an 'inhabited place' per se, in my opinion, as the population is largely transient. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 20:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note - this was closed 3hr 21min prior to a full five days of discussion --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 20:17, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Battoni[edit]

This article is about a Hamlet in Italy. A hamlet is not an actual place, not a municipality, and not inherently notable just by its "existence". All a hamlet is is an area that people refer to by the same name for geographical reference, such as TriBeCa. This particular hamlet makes no assertion of notability, and seems to be non-notable. It is also an orphan. CastAStone /^/(talk) 23:30, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails verifiability since the only reference is to a website which is a mirror of this same Wikipedia article. Geographic places, even if they are no longer inhabited, even if their maximum population at any time was 50 (like this one), have been kept in AFDs as long as there is at least one rock solid reliable reference, such as the US Census, the 1911 Britannica, or some other governmental or scholarly reference to verify its existence. The nominator, CastAStone, states that areas within a municipality are not necessarily notable, and I agree. Such a neighborhood may be notable on the basis of substantial coverage in multiple reliable and independent sources. Examples of such are TriBeCa as mentioned by CastAStone, DUMBO, Brooklyn, Whitechapel, Haight-Ashbury, San Francisco, California, Chicago Loop and countless other notable areas within a larger municipality. The burden is presumably much lower if the hamlet stands by itself in a county, province, or region and is a census reporting locality, is in the Domesday Book or equivalent. If references satisfying WP:V and WP:N can be found for this hamlet by the end of the AFD period, then I might switch to "Keep." Edison (talk) 01:42, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If no sources are found, we can use this as a redirect to Pompeo Batoni, whose name is sometimes spelled with two t's. Zagalejo^^^ 09:16, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep~~Undecided~~. Of course a hamlet is "an actual place". Battoni is a small village/hamlet, and as such is inherently notable. Here's a picture.--Michig (talk) 10:56, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Having said that, there's no entry in the Italian wikipedia. I can't find much about it on a Google search, but if someone with a decent Italian atlas could verify its existence, that should be sufficient.--Michig (talk) 11:11, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Multimap finds nothing.--Michig (talk) 18:34, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hamlet in the UK and Canada and Hamlet in the rest of the world mean two different things. I think the best way to describe it is that it is like a neighborhood, which is not notable, except it is centered around a group of businesses instead of a group of homes. -CastAStone /^/(talk) 22:30, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the most important issue here is whether or not Battoni actually exists.--Michig (talk) 23:08, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As it's described as a hamlet with a small population it seems to be a hamlet in the UK/Canadian sense.--Michig (talk) 18:07, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Dav nel 03 15:11, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Masterpiece2000 (talk) 05:12, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Italy-related deletions. —Phil Bridger (talk) 10:53, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I wonder if it's a problem with spelling? Batoni rather than Battoni. Using the Italian google map for Batoni Pescaglia bring up this, Località Batoni 55064 Pescaglia (Locality Batoni 55064 Pescaglia), not far from Pisa and Lucca and with a postal code too, though it does appears to be in the middle of nowhere! --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 13:58, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Seems a possibility. A hamlet with population around 50 wouldn't show up as much on Google maps or satellite photos. I'd rather keep this until someone familiar with the area can confirm the accuracy (or otherwise) of the article.--Michig (talk) 18:07, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here's another link suggesting it exists and is named Batoni rather than Battoni.--Michig (talk) 18:22, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep but move to Batoni for which there appears to be verifiable sources that such a place exists. By long-standing convention, populated places are considered inherently notable. The challenge is to expand the article, which may now be possible to do under the name Batoni. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:42, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.