Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battle of the Assa River

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete but draftify. The consensus is clear that the article does not belong in mainspace. However @Ivanvector: is an established editor and saving him the step of undeleting if he chooses to work on it. If not, G7 or G13 solve this. Star Mississippi 15:04, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of the Assa River[edit]

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I have mentioned the reasons in the talk page, this whole article is based on a folk tale that has no basis in reality Goddard2000 (talk) 17:36, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All of the sources mention a folk tale that has no basis in reality. Besides even the original source claims the Kabardinians, and Kumyks were on Egi's side. I don't know why the author placed them separately. If this story had any proof like a military report or anything else really then i wouldn't mind. I believe we should look into wikieditors articles, there are many dubious sources. I mean if we go by his logic and way of doing things then we can record the sayings and folk tales of the clan Äkkhi that claim they defeated French in a battle, even the clan chieftan is known as the "Scourge of the French" in folk tales. Then we might even add this to pages such as "French battle list" as a French defeat and a great Chechen victory. This is Wikieditor's methodology

(I wrote this originally in the talk page but no one responded). Goddard2000 (talk) 17:40, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History and Military. Shellwood (talk) 18:08, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete lack of authoritative sources and obvious forgery. The article contains deliberately false information. Merjuev Salovdi (talk) 20:08, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed the author of these articles with weak sources, after the articles are taken out of drafts or tested, he adds there without sources Ingush. Note. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.198.131.186 (talk) 11:53, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment being a folk tale is not a reason for deletion, as long as the article describes it as such. Being a hoax on the other hand, is. 151.188.137.191 (talk) 15:32, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So a biased folk tale can be turned into a wikipedia article? a folk tale that has no proof of happening in either archeological report or military report? We might as well add Chechen victories over French as a battle since such a folk tale exists among certain Chechen clans, also we can add this French defeat in the "list of battles involving France". If we set a precedent of creating wikipedia battles based on a folk tale by an elder then we would have thousands of fantastical battles. It is better to add this story as a text in larger article instead of devoting a whole article on it. Goddard2000 (talk) 16:28, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete If the article does not have significance and authoritative sources, then this is a clear forgery of information. Then let's write articles about all the people in the world, just for quantity. Then no one will catch up with the English Wikipedia by articles. I understand you are allowed to write everything here, in Russian you were forbidden to publish it. --Товболатов (talk) 19:23, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as hoax Ioe bidome (talk) 21:39, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify - I can't review the Cyrillic sources provided, and Google doesn't turn up any results for a battle at Assa river. However, Google does produce results suggesting a historical conflict did occur between the Ingush and either the Chechens or the Kabardians (possibly either or both as puppets of the Russians) around the 15th or 16th centuries, and the Ingush were traditionally located in the Assa river valley. Whether this article is about a historical battle, or about a national legend concerning the battle, either one can be notable and encyclopedia-worthy but better sourcing is needed. We write about legendary not-necessarily-historical battles all the time if there is appropriate sourcing; the Trojan War is a famous example. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 16:11, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Chechen-Ingush battles against each other and Kabardins did happen there is no doubt about that but this supposed battle has very few sources supporting it and even they are just hearsay and folk tale from an elder. I wouldn't compare this to the Trojan wars which has several sources including ancient ones talking about it, the legend of Trojan wars is so ancient and talked about for hundreds if not thousands of years, so even if it didn't happen it's still a famous story worthy of its own page. The "battle for Assa" (a modern name for it) is nothing but a story that wasn't even widespread among Chechens, at best it should be mentioned as a text in a greater article about Ingush. It doesn't deserve an article dedicated to it in my opinion, the creater of the article now agrees with me and is even looking for ways to delete it. You can check in my talk page where we had a talk about it. Goddard2000 (talk) 17:03, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.